Relationships are not just of you and one person- it can be with everything else. Family, friends, even with a church. Sara Forrest, an ex-Mormon, comes on the podcast to share how they found themselves in the most authentic light while navigating through multiple relationships.
Sara’s journey started when they realized they were the “other person” in a relationship. Through that relationship, we met. Sara shares what that initial meeting felt like, and how they were able to understand that people do not always say who they truly are. This also led them into questioning their LDS faith, themselves in how they feel, and how the church views queer individuals.
We chat about:
Our initial meeting through infidelity
Learning lessons through every relationship
Conflicting feelings with identity vs religion
Exploring what family truly means
How being different, can be beautiful
Connect with Sarah:
Art Instagram: @demys.art
Most Platforms: @demyxcamo
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Sara: [00:00:00] I had the thought in my head 'cause I was going back and forth within myself, like, stay with the church, be true to myself, stay with the church, be true. And in my mind, I would repeat the phrase, it's the church would prefer a dead Mormon versus a queer Mormon.
Jules: . Hi everyone. Welcome to Jules Unscripted. Today I have Sarah Forrest here with me, and Sarah and I met in a very unconventional way. Sarah and I have been friends now for, oh my gosh, like since [00:01:00] 20 14, 20 13, something around that timeframe. A very long time. Yeah. And yeah, and how we met is very unconventional and very.
Crazy so to say. And I'll do a little bit of a backstory on that, but first of all, I wanna say welcome Sarah. Thank you for coming up to the podcast. Thank you for having me. And so this conversation is a very deep conversation and it talks about scandal. It talks about being true within yourself and finding what's really best for you.
So, I will start off by saying how Sarah and I met. Sarah and I met through my old relationship. I was in a relationship with a boy. 'cause let's face it, he's a boy. And we'll call him Jay. I think that's a good name. Okay. Okay. I think that's a good name for, for this person. And so [00:02:00] I was in a relationship with Jay for, gosh, I think about like a year to a year and a half.
And it was mostly long distance. We met through friends and I would go down every so often to visit. He would come visit me like a handful of times, not many. But it was mostly long distance. But it was a relationship and it was pretty intense.
And so we ended up having some kind of a rocky part of our relationship, kind of a little bit towards the end. Jay had cheated on me once before, and then he's cheated on me again. And the second time that he cheated on me Sarah was the other person. And so Sarah actually reached out to me and was like, Hey, this is what's going on.
Because I kind of found out that he was being weird and that he was being secretive, and I was just like, what is happening here? Like, who is he always hanging out with? Why is he like. Being weird with how we're talking and things like [00:03:00] that. And so, I'm pretty sure what happened with Sarah. Realized that he was still talking to me, that were still figuring things out, and then reached out to me about what was going on.
And I was like, wait, what the fuck? And so my memory's a little bit hazy, but that's what I believe happened. And Sarah is also here to talk about her side of the story and what happened with him and how. How they started and when she realized me and just kind of like the overall theme of what happens when you're been cheated on or the other woman, and what happens when you realize, no, like this isn't what I need in life.
This isn't what I want in life and this is who I am and I'm proud to be me and someone will love me for who I am. So, Sarah, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and I can't believe that this is happening, that we're having this conversation and that, you know, this had, this moment was a pivotal moment for both of us [00:04:00] because not only did we.
Have hurt, but we also found a beautiful friendship with all of this too. So again, thank you for being here, for being honest and sharing your story and just kind of explaining more of your thoughts and feelings behind everything that went down and how you overcame everything and became the best version of yourself that you are now.
Sara: Yeah, for sure. I, I think backstory, I guess a little bit from my side. So Jay and I actually met in high school, so we had known each other for a while. We did stage tech together and he was two years older than me, so we only knew each other for about a year. But I was friends and knew two other women that I.
He had dated during high school the one that he was originally with and the one after. And just a lot of, you know, kind of his, his doings with that. And I think it's important to [00:05:00] reference that this was in Utah. At the time being I was a really faithful member of the latter Day Saint or Mormon church and.
Jay was an on again, off again kind of member, like I also knew his brother and his sister and his family and hi. His family was very, very faithful in the religion, and so religion does play a big part of this, but I had. Gone on one of the church service missions and when I came back I was, you know, living at home.
I had about a summer before I was gonna return to college down in the southern part of the state, and I had run into him and I was like, oh, hey, like I. I haven't seen you in years. How's life? How are things going? And just like reconnecting his friends. 'cause we were friends in high school. I thought he was a pretty cool dude and, you know, he, he would tell me a little bit [00:06:00] about some of the going ons, how life was going and.
We started, you know, hanging out a lot. And then at, at some point he talked about like, oh, hey, yeah, I'm in a relationship, but it's not going too well. And he would kind of vent his issues with the relationship towards me. And to be frank, a lot of it did kind of revolve around religion. With Jules not being of that faith and in, in the culture, it's very.
It's very frowned upon if you want to be an active member of the faith and not be in a relationship or married with someone of the faith. And so, you know. I, I think he was definitely going through a lot of internal conflicts, and at least from my point of view at the time, I was like, well, you need to, you need to figure this out, right?
You need to come to the conclusions for yourself. You need to figure out like, where are you going in life? What do you wanna do? [00:07:00] And to be frank if, if this person, this long distance relationship you're having with someone isn't fulfilling your needs, if it's not. Aligning with what you want in life, or at least what he thought he wanted in life at the time.
Then the kind thing to do is to end it, like ending relationships, having been through many of them. Is it, it sucks, but it's better than dragging people along. And, you know, for a while, for a time being, I, I. I thought he did that. Obviously, you know, with the relationship being long distance, I, I didn't know anything on the side.
But then it, it, it became Frank as, as we started to get closer, I was like, oh, you're, you're still talking to her. She's still maybe thinks that. Everything's good on the relationship side point, and that didn't quite sit right with me. So I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna reach out. I'm gonna see like [00:08:00] how, how her point of view is because I, you know, never wanted to be the, the other person in, in a relationship.
And even though like. I had been able to learn and grow with him. I was like, I, I don't wanna be that other person. I don't want to be essentially a homewrecker that I don't, I don't really know a lot of people who do. And so, yeah, kind of bringing, bringing that to, to the forefront and then the, the little bit of a fallout that, that went from there.
Which of course, you know, like, like, like Ju said, it's, it's a very unconventional way of. Kind of having the first contact with each other and especially looking back of all the time that we have been friends and, and been connected is like, oh, that's basically the first thing I ever said to you was like, Hey I think he is basically cheating on you with me, so [00:09:00] let's
Jules: figure that out.
. And I do remember when you told me that, I was like, wait, what? Like, I, I'm so confused. Like I thought that you're just a friend. Like, I don't know what's happening here. And so, I. When you messaged me that it was just kind of like, I, I think I blocked most of it out, but I think what happened was I was kind of like taken aback in shock.
'cause not only did, he was cheating on me previously, but it's like I thought he was stopping that and, it took me a moment to kind of calm down and to see like what's going on. And then when we finally like sat down and talked about things and I heard your side of things, I'm like, okay. Like he definitely has a lot of stuff to work on, and that's not me.
But at the time I was just like really upset and I'm like, I don't like this. And I think we weren't friends for a while after that and then like reconnected again, but yeah.
Sara: Yeah, yeah. I, you know, and I think that's, that's such a huge thing me, myself being like. Gender [00:10:00] expansive and not being quite aligned with, with some of the religious philosophy.
Now in my life, I, I think it's entirely valid that a person maybe doesn't want to be monogamous, maybe doesn't want to be fit into that, that box, into that mold, and I think that's absolutely valid, but. Those type of relationships have to be communicated. And I think, yeah, he had a lot of learning and growing because honestly that's, that's kind of essentially what happened to end our relationship after that.
Because I was getting ready to go back to school. He was doing so much better at going back to church and. He, when he broke up with me, it was really interesting because the way he phrased it, so I don't, I don't know how he kind of phrased things with you, but with me, he's like, well, you know, like it if we're together, like I'm just gonna [00:11:00] bring you down, like essentially saying You're so much better than me, and like, I'm just gonna bring you down and I, I don't wanna ruin like.
Your eternal soul kind of idea, which as things in my life kind of developed after that is kind of hilarious to think back on,
Jules: right? Because now you are no longer part of that church. Now you've grown into someone completely different and more open. And just someone that I was like, wow, like Sarah really changed so much.
Like, like I never would've thought who you are now, like. If you told yourself who you're now, who you were back then, your back then self would be like, wait, what?
Sara: I think I, I, I think at first, like I would be super scared to like learn all that and then to, you know. I would be so full of guilt just because, I mean, that, that's such a big thing that led me away from being religious is that guilt complex.
Yeah. If I, if I met [00:12:00] myself. But then, yeah, he, you know, he broke up with me and it was sad. And then almost immediately afterwards was dating this girl that he met at church and he told me. Like before he broke up with me, he is like, yeah, I've made this friend, and like, she's super cool. You know, turns out they were probably starting a relationship before he ended our relationship.
Long story short, with that one, they got married like three months later and then got divorced like three months after that. So, you
Jules: know, yeah. We both knew that wasn't gonna last. It was like learning
Sara: and growing, I guess.
Jules: Yeah.
Sara: But, you know, I. As I've reflected on my life in general, and it's not just this relationship, but many relationships in my life of, of thinking back, like, what, what did I learn from that relationship?
And I, I would definitely say one of the biggest things that I learned is it's best to be authentic. It's it's best to be yourself. And if people aren't gonna [00:13:00] accept you for you, then it's really not worth being around them. 'Cause honestly, I would say that, that Jay was probably one of the first people that I verbally came out to as I was like coming to realizations about myself, of like, oh, I'm not straight, and that's a big deal in the church.
And so, you know, coming out to him. And the way that he was accepting of me was, I think, probably the slippery slope that just kind of sent me down of being like, I need to realize that being myself is the best way of doing things. And then I. Surrounding myself with people who do actually care and support me.
And so as I'm away at college, of course, like mourning the loss of a relationship and the next following three years were, were honestly just like repeated journeys of self-discovery of [00:14:00] of being willing to. Listen to myself and listen to my heart instead of being kind of led and guided by what I was always told growing up, that I should be, that the, the person that I should become and being away from home and family really led me to kind of open my mind to things.
And yeah, that, that honestly led to like kind of a lot of repeated processes 'cause. It was, it was during that time, like you said, a couple years of not talking to each other, and then I reached out to you 'cause I was gonna be in Vegas for, I don't remember what I was gonna be for that reason. And I was like, wait, I know a few people down there and I reached out to you and I was like, Hey, I'm gonna be in Vegas.
Like, you know, we should get, get lunch or something. I, I don't even remember. Because I don't know, that's the type of person I [00:15:00] am. If I know people in an area and I'm in an area I like to visit and then yeah, that's, that's when we started having kind of the awkward conversations at first for sure.
But then also giving me the opportunity to like finally put a face and a, and a person with you and to, to. Really come to realize that maybe some of the negative things that I, I heard really just aren't true and, you know, might have been skewed or manipulated in some way, and really helping me to understand like, okay, no, like I need to figure things out for myself and not, not just kind of be agreeable with what I'm told in life.
Jules: Well, I will say thank you for having an open mind and for kind of seeing more of like who I am instead of being what you were told. I think a lot of people have been told certain things about different people that it's like, well, this [00:16:00] person doesn't seem very good. Like I don't wanna be around them or associated with them.
And so they never really got to like experience who they truly are. And so I appreciate you. You know, reaching out and be like, Hey, like let's get lunch. Let's hang out. Let's do something and get to know each other a little bit. And I definitely think that through that we were able to really see like, oh yeah, like this person is actually pretty cool.
Like, I see why like, you know, Jay would like this person, but at the same time it's like, why, why did they put us against each other kind of thing. Like why, why was it like, why did they say negative things when it's like, no, like we were just trying to make things work. So I do appreciate you coming by and wanting to like hang out and talk and get to know me in a different light, and I really appreciate that.
And also too, I wanted to ask you when you were in college all those years, trying to like find yourself and be who you are and realize, oh, like maybe I am maybe I am part of the L-G-B-T-Q community. Maybe I am this, maybe I am that. [00:17:00] How did you. Come to terms with that while being part of the LDS church and with your family.
'cause I know that's a really big aspect of the LDS church is your family life and like, were they accepting of you? Did, did you tell them? And like, how did you grapple with the fact of like, yeah, this is me, this is what I believe, this is what I think of and this is what I believe now. Like how, because you did, you said you did a whole missionary, so like how did you come from missionary to.
Thought process now. And how and how do you not go into that? Because, because I'm trying to, like, I'm, what I'm trying to say is you just seem like such a much lighter person and you seem like the person that went through some trenches, but it's like it didn't completely. I guess fuck you over maybe, I don't know that, I don't know if that makes some sense, but do you understand what I'm trying to like ask?
Yeah, absolutely. So I
Sara: think, I think really off the bat, [00:18:00] yeah, it, it messed me up and that's. I think that's why it took years and there's still times that I will struggle with certain things of either my upbringing, my childhood, but a lot of the religious trauma that that, that really came from those situations.
And as I've delved more into my religious trauma, I realized that a lot of those things did start a lot earlier than I remember or first remembered, but. As I was going through college I would struggle in general, like ever since I was a teenager, like it, it was known that I had depression. And so those were things that I would struggle off and on with.
And obviously 'cause my parents helped me get some kind of treatment for that, it was known. But I. Got to a point where I was really struggling with my classes and because. The program that [00:19:00] I was in was a, a very kind of tight knit cohort. There's only 11 of us. And then our program director, I had a classmate who expressed some concerns to my program director, like, Hey, Sarah doesn't seem to be doing okay, and she might need some help.
And so I got pulled into a meeting with my program director and he is like, Hey, we have on campus counseling. You know, I can't like force you to go to counseling, but, but maybe this is something you can look into. And since you're a student and it's on campus, it's completely free. So may maybe he's like, I can't fix all your problems.
He's like, I can help you in your classes, but that's about it. And so. I was like, oh, well now I'm in trouble. Now I have to go to counseling. And so I, I went and I started counseling and that was the end of my junior year. And over the summer since I had a job and I was staying local, I was [00:20:00] like, yeah, let's just throw myself into all the counseling.
And so pretty much anything, my counselor was like, Hey, you should do this, you should do that. I was like, I'm gonna do it. And so I was meeting with him regularly and we were delving into stuff. I also did some group therapy quite a bit actually. Group therapy was, was really awesome. And then another type of therapy called biofeedback where I.
They connect sensors pretty much on a lot of different parts of your body and it helps you visualize through your, your body's responses and how you can control and manipulate them with your emotions and other somatic functions in your body. And so making all those connections, having like deep summer dive, and that's when I really started to realize that my struggles weren't just.
Normal everyday struggles, I think is, is a way to say 'cause you know, people do like to commiserate and be like, oh, [00:21:00] my life is hard. This is difficult. Or with the mission, you know, people are like, oh yeah, it was really, really hard. And they would kind of talk a little bit about some of the difficulties.
I'm like, oh, well you think that's bad? And, and then starting to realize, and with my counselor be like, oh no, I. I actually went through quite a bit of trauma on my mission and I was not in a lot of safe situations. Like I was put in danger both like mentally and physically and the people around me who were supposed to be there to help me to protect me.
'cause even though I was an adult, I mean, to be completely frank, I was 19 to 21. Like you're still. Essentially a child, like it's your first venture out and you need help, you need support, you need someone to help protect you. Especially where I was in like East LA and some very dangerous situations [00:22:00] and the people that were supposed to be there for me, the protectors I was supposed to have didn't do that.
And so that, that started to kind of crumble my. My belief in like the structures of the church and the foundational beliefs. 'cause it's very much a you, you respect the authority, you respect the people that are above and you're told like they will be there. They're protecting you, they're watching out for you.
And then to go through time and time again of like, oh, they're not. They're, they're actually quite fallible and they don't have your, your best interest. And really in a lot of ways, a mission is run a lot like sales and a lot like customer service. And that's, I think that's why a lot of missionaries will get sales jobs after they come home because that is what you're doing.
You're selling a religion [00:23:00] and. So that, that really started to crumble my, my thoughts and feelings around a lot of that stuff. And as I was going into my senior year, I, I started to separate from. Church, I, I wouldn't really do a lot of the activities that I used to. I wouldn't really, I, I would attend, but I, I was starting to meet people who were from different walks of life and through especially group therapy, be in a situation where I was with people who had gone through either similar things.
Different things and being able to understand myself and others and we got to a point where we had a higher up. Really higher up a church individual come and talk to the members down at the college call him like devotionals. And this man is still alive. And the, the fact he's still [00:24:00] alive and the fact he has so much power and influence in the church makes me really un really, really angry at times.
But anyway, besides the point. Me and a lot of people including a lot of people in, in my group, we attended this. 'cause one, it's kind of expected like, oh, an apostle's coming, so you have to come listen to 'em. It's like, okay. I, I went in there. I just wanted peace and comfort. Right? You, I just wanted to feel some sort of spiritual experience, some sort of spiritual comfort, and I.
This man started talking about something called the November situation. No, November 5th, I believe. And in this situation it was back in 2015, the church made a decision that if a child of. [00:25:00] Queer parents. So, you know, one of the parents is in an active like L-G-B-T-Q relationship that that child wouldn't be allowed to be baptized and become a member of the church until they were 18 and, and they would have to essentially denounce their parents and.
Not a, not a great policy. I was on my mission at the time when it was released, so I didn't quite understand a lot of the fallout with that, but I could see the effect I had on people and a lot of people, members and nonmembers alike had issues with that, that policy and the way that it basically explicitly is there to.
Destroy families.
Jules: Yeah. That's not what I remember the LDS church trying to be about at the time. Right. Like it's about family and love and acceptance and the fact that they [00:26:00] announced that it's like, what the fuck is this? Yeah. Everyone was like, what is going on?
Sara: So. So this guy, he starts talking about that situation and at this point it was four years after it happened, and he talked about that at church headquarters, they received hundreds of letters.
And you know, I think, I think that speaks a lot, that a lot of people are like, Hey, no, this is not okay. And he basically said. He that he was surprised that he thought that those hundreds of people would think that they would actually care to read those letters. And he started laughing that, yeah, he started laughing and the crowd started laughing about that.
That is insane.
Sara: Yeah, exactly. And honestly, for months leading up to this meeting. [00:27:00] I had the thought in my head 'cause I was going back and forth within myself, like, stay with the church, be true to myself, stay with the church, be true. And in my mind, I would repeat the phrase, it's the church would prefer a dead Mormon versus a queer Mormon.
And it was really just solidified in that moment because that's a lot of what those letters were saying of like, these are high vulnerable populations. These are people that need support. And you think it's funny that that people were sharing their messages of, Hey, this is caused mental turmoil and this has led some people to die by suicide.
And they just laughed about it. And it was really a breaking point. It was a breaking point for me, and thank God I had that group. 'cause [00:28:00] literally the day of group after that meeting, all we talked about in that meeting was essentially debriefing because most of us who were there believing or not believing, we were just.
Devastated. We were in tears and we didn't know how to process it because it's like, here's this church leader who laughs at our existence. Here is someone in the group who had written a letter. And knowing that essentially their pleas fell on deaf ears was just devastating and it, really helped that someone in the group.
Wasn't, wasn't a member, wasn't from Utah, wasn't raised in it. And he's like, he's like, if you believe in God, I don't think that that would be the message that God would have.
Jules: Exactly. No, exactly. I agree with that because I've had some arguments before with some people who are very religious in the fact that they were like, oh I remember this one person go, I have a, like one of my best friends is gay, but I can't be their friend anymore because that's not like part of the teaching of the church.
. And when I heard that, I was just kind of like, what do you mean? Like, they've been your friend since for years. And like, why is their preference over who they wanna be with matter? Like, wouldn't God love everyone who they are and trying to be their most like, authentic self?
Like, I don't, I can't understand that. And so the fact that that LDS, dS guy, I, I don't remember what they're called, but in the pastor, I think that he's just like laughed at these letters that people were saying like, no, like this isn't okay. This isn't right. Like they should be accepted. It just breaks my heart too, like, it, it's crazy that people think like this sometimes, and it's like these people have.
Lives and they have love to give. It's just not in the way that's traditional and that's okay. Mm-hmm.
Sara: Yeah, exactly. And, and yeah, it, at that point I was, I was basically, I was like, I'm done. There's, there's, there's nothing. There's nothing left that is keeping me there because, you know, here. For context.
The, the man who said this, he is next in line to be prophet. He is next in line to be leader of the church when the, when the current prophet passes away. So prophet kinda like a pope. And there are people that, that love and support him and they think he's a super cool dude. And, and I was like, this man is heartless.
This, this man. He was a judge in Utah and. That that's the judgments that he has. That's the mindset he has. And that, yeah, it, it, [00:31:00] it broke me and I, I realized for myself, I was like, if I'm going to continue literally being alive, I, I think I need to leave. And so, yeah, that was it. That, that was. In the, in the ex-Mormon community, they call it.
That's what broke my shelf. That's the straw that broke the camel's back. I, I was like, that's it. And once that gate opened, things changed. I.
Jules: When you had that realization, did you feel like a lift off your shoulders and were you like, oh, shit. Like, what do, like, how do I go about this now? What was that process like for you?
Sara Yeah, it, you know, basically, I think kind of like you said, that it, it was a little bit of. Realizing that I wasn't tethered to this, but also it was scary because in the church in general, but especially for those that were born female.
They very much try to dictate how your life is gonna go. , They're very much like, Hey, so congratulations. You were born to have babies and to get married and to have babies. That is all you're going to do and that is all you should do in life, and that's all you should want to do. And that was never something that, that connected or resonated with me.
And, but then. I still had those thoughts of feelings of like, okay, well this is what I should do though. And with that being taken away without , the kind of roadmap, the idea of being told what to do with your life, I was like, oh shit. , This is all up to me now. And I started to take risk.
I started to honestly probably do what a lot of people do in their teenage years. You know, I, I started [00:33:00] to explore and be like, okay, let's, let's figure, let's figure this out. let's ask questions to the right people. Like my friends that I had growing up, none of them were members of the church and which was very unusual to be able to find all of those people.
But, you know, reaching out to them and being like, Hey, so I, I really don't know, like, like what do. Normal people do. How do those normal people live their life? You know? Yeah. I turned 21, but I, I wasn't drinking, I wasn't smoking. I, I, in fact side note, didn't take my first drink of alcohol until I was 24.
Same with coffee. I, it was very, , yeah. I was very delayed in the, in really what a lot of people experience in their adolescence. In that situation. But yeah, getting ready to, to graduate college and I [00:34:00] knew I wanted to go to grad school and so I started really just kind of focusing on that. I'm like, okay, so I need to focus on my future and my career and kind of see where that takes me.
And so I was like, I wanna go grad school. I decided I wanna go to UNLV. A couple different reasons. And it happened that I, did have a friend that lived down there. I, like I said, I have a few friends in Vegas and so I reached out to him 'cause I knew he had a house and I was like, Hey, are you still living at your grandma's house?
And he was like, yeah we moved grandma out, but it's just me. And I was like, cool. I'm looking at going to university down there. Do you think we could be roommates and. He's like, yeah, sure. We, we could totally make that, that work out. And so I was like, all right, that's it. I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be gonna Vegas, I'm gonna go get my master's, and I'm just going to be open for those experiences.
And I, at this, at [00:35:00] this point, , when you are a I guess full fledged member of the church, done the whole temple stuff like. Wearing the, the, the garments or the magic underwear, as people call it. And I'd been wearing 'em for years at that point, but realizing that obviously, like those don't resonate with me.
And then just making choices for myself and in a, in a funny way, because the church gives you underwear that you're supposed to wear. Like I didn't have. Other underwear, like that's kind of a weird thing to say, like, you know, I'm a 2024, well, 23-year-old adult, and I was like, I don't have underwear.
That's not. Church sanction. I don't know. It's so weird to think.
Jules: Yeah, that's very strange. It's like, right. Wait, what? I've never had different kind of underwear. Huh. I wonder, you're probably thinking now, like, I wonder what kind that I can actually get. . [00:36:00] Right. . But yeah. No, that's crazy that, , that happened.
Sara (2): Yeah. And, and so right after graduation, before going to grad school an opportunity for a volunteer trip came up and the trip is called AIDS Lifecycle. It's a charity bike ride that goes from San Francisco to LA and I was gonna volunteer on the sports med team, and I had some classmates who've done it a few times.
And so. Two of them were, were going again that that year. And I was like, yeah, you know what? Like, I'm graduated. This will probably be good for me. And I go on this trip and that was the last time that I wore my garments because I get there for the trip. We stopped at Target, do like a little target run I bought like.
I don't know, the most conservative, like multi-pack. I was like, Hey, whatever gets me through the week. 'cause it's a week long trip. And, and then it was like that, that was it. [00:37:00] And I went through that that week, , practicing sports med and, and helping out these people. And it was kind of almost like.
Again, like my, my heart and my mind was open and I was interacting with people from across the country all with individual stories, individual backgrounds, and a majority of them being L-G-B-T-Q few allies as well. But that meant I, you know, dozens of different stories from people of coming out and.
Stories of people being accepted or not being accepted, and how, how some of them resonated and matched with me and some of them didn't. It made me realize that I wasn't alone and that my journey is just as valid as anyone else's. I [00:38:00] realize now that you did ask, you know, how did my family find out?
, How did they take it? So it, it was back during the time after it was after that. Talk or a devotional that I went to they do semi-annual, so every six months, like church-wide broadcasting. I didn't watch this one. But there were some talks and speeches given that didn't resonate well and was hurtful to some L-G-B-T-Q people.
And there's someone that. They were my brother's age and they, their family grew up near our family, so we, we knew him pretty, pretty well and he was a out and proud gay man. And, you know, my family knew that. And they, they were still friends with him. My brothers were still friends. My parents were [00:39:00] somewhat open but really still pretty closed off to the idea and I.
I accidentally outed myself on, on a post and they saw my comment and they reached out to me and they're like, we're, it was like, why would you make such a comment like that? Like, what's going on? You need to explain this to us. And it was that moment I basically had to. Say, I was like, yep, this is, this is me.
I was like,, known for a while now and I'm not gonna run away from it. That I, I'm bisexual and that I am not going to be afraid of it. I'm not gonna run away from it. And that it's, it's my reality. And the reason why I said those things is because they, they are genuinely hurtful and so.
My parents didn't take it super well, and again, I credit my group therapy helping me get through this. They, I hated to be the center of attention and I hated to be the topic of discussion, but they were all super, super helpful in me getting through it. But, you know, I, I basically got a lot of what people would talk about, like stereotypical, like, like my dad did the whole, you know. We don't support this, but you know, we, we love you anyway. But also for some reason had to throw in like, your mom's been crying all day and like, you know, we need to work this out. We need to talk about this. And I didn't really wanna have those conversations at the time because like, what, what's there to talk about?
Like, are you gonna try and talk me out of it? Because like. No. And yeah, it's like, oh, your mom's crying. And I'm like, okay.
Sara: yeah. Yeah. Well, I was, I was just gonna say I was like it, honestly, it took quite a few years and it took. Quite a few negative experiences to happen, both, both to me with them, but also that they witnessed in the communities around them for, for them to actually start coming to terms with everything.
'cause they were still pretty and, and like I would definitely say my parents will still have their moments, but it. I think they didn't realize the severity that lack of support can lead to. And then once they started to learn what that could lead to, they, they started to change their tune a little bit.
And that, that all occurred honestly in the last like four years. Right. So fairly recently, and that's after finding out six years ago. So it took. They, they did the whole like, you know, hate the sin, love the sinner type of thing. But when it really came face to face at it they did kick me out of their house in the middle of the pandemic in 2020.
And I had to scramble to find a place to live for a temporary point of view. And then. Made, made my way back down to Vegas, realizing that it was probably the safest place for me to be. Funnily enough, I, my roommate was awesome. I we're, we're still super, super great friends and I'd do anything for him, but I.
It, it was up and down and up and down. And it wasn't until about a year or so after kicking me out that my dad like, genuinely apologized and told me that he, he never realized like the way that he treated me and his behaviors and actions. While he would say, you know, the, the love word, like, it, it didn't actually convey love.
And so our, our relationship is better now, but it, it got really rocky after that and, yeah. Just kinda kind of realized. And I think that's why Vegas was so good and why I loved my time there and why I tell people, you know, even though I was, I was only there for about two and a half years, but it really was the most formative parts of my life and that I learned what family truly means and that family's not, you know, something of blood.
It's, it's something of. Love and care and true support no matter what.
Jules: Right? And I'm happy that you were able to find [00:44:00] that within the biggest community that you found. And I'm really happy that you were able to within those years, come to who you are. And like you went through so much and you went through so much like pain and hurt and suffering too.
You walk this road of like, this is who I am, this is who I wanna be. Even if it's not traditional in any sense of the. Of the word, especially within the LDS community. . Even though it's, it's not like, even though it's not the traditional way, you were still able to come to who you are and love yourself for it, and then people around you started to be like.
This is Sarah. This is, this is my family. I see her for who she is and I love her for it. And this is just, you know, this is how it is and you're sticking to what you know and what you believe and being who you are. So, yeah. So thank you for, for sharing all of that and for being so open and for being so honest and for just kind of showing us that [00:45:00] even though you have to go through so much hurt and pain, that at the end of the road there's light.
There's light at the end of the tunnel, and you're, you're the version of that light.
Sara (2): Yeah, exactly. And I think that is so funny that. Like, and I appreciate that, that you recognize that because growing up in the church, and even, even nowadays, they'll still say it where they almost try to scare you out of being different and out of leaving and telling you like, oh, you'll never find true happiness outside of.
You'll never find true love and acceptance and, and you'll never actually be happy. Those people that you see, they say they're happy, but they're not actually happy. They're lying to themselves, and it's only darkness when you leave. And honestly, for me, it's, it's been the complete opposite. Like I. I don't live in a constant fear [00:46:00] of things anymore.
Fear of myself, fear of the world around me. I don't live in this thought process of, you know, every time I meet someone I gotta find out like strange details. Like I didn't realize so many things from my upbringing were so weird until I. Got out like, oh, my coworkers here in Washington love to hear my Utah stories.
And they'll just make the funniest faces. They're like, I'm sorry, what? And I'm like, yeah, that's, that's just how it was. That's how life was. And every like, you just accepted it. And then I come out here and I remember my first day of work out here and my boss walking. Walking with me as we were leaving and he is like, oh, you know, first day done.
How are you liking it? How are you enjoying the experience? And I said to him like, you know, [00:47:00] it's honestly really strange to me that I'm meeting all these people and it's one of the first questions that they're asking me is not what church do you go to? He's like, oh, oh no, no people, no. Like, yeah, that's pretty funny.
He was like, he was shocked to hear like, oh no, that, that's how it is in Utah. Like, oh, you get a new neighbor, you meet a new person, like. Three sentences in, you're like, oh, what church do you go to? And he is like, yeah, no. People around here don't really care. Like what church you go to. Like some people do, of course, but those people are everywhere.
But I'm like, no, that's, that is the standard. Like, hi, nice to meet you. I'm so and so. Like, oh, are you, do you, do you have a family? Blah, blah, blah. Oh, what church you go to? Yeah.
Sara: and yeah. It's, it's just so wild to, to just. Not have that be the immediate judgment people have of me. [00:48:00] Like people, people get to know me for me, not, not for some like ritual practice that I might do once a week.
Mm-hmm. And it, and I do it just because I have, you know, the fear of God put into me and instead like, yeah.
Jules: , And that's how it should be. Like, people should know you for you and not for. Being just solely part of like the LDS church. Yeah. Yeah. So Sarah, thank you so much for coming on and for sharing everything here.
Like, like I love having conversations like this with people because I learned so much more about like you and your story and more of like what you've gone through the past few years and like while we've been friends and known each other since. I don't even know how long. It's like there's still more that I'm learning about you, and I'm always just so blown away from all the things you had to go through to where you are now.
And I just wanna say like, thank you again so much for coming on and being open and vulnerable and sharing your experiences and sharing what it's like going from a devout LDS. Faith goer to being someone who you are authentically and being a proud, commun, a proud member of the L-G-B-T-Q and just someone that is living their life to the fullest and.
You're like in the, I you're in amazing relationship now and your husband is awesome and it seems like you're really happy and you have like, everything that just, you just seem so much lighter. So, it's been crazy watching you grow and I just wanna say thank you so much for coming on and for sharing your story and for sharing that journey today.
Sara: Well, I appreciate. You wanting to share my story and, and thinking, thinking that my story is worth sharing. I, I think that there's nothing really like unique about [00:50:00] me or , my struggles and, , I just kind of hope that maybe someone hears my story and can maybe relate to part of it and, and realize that.
It does get better. You know, there's, there's a lot of nuances and, and things that have helped and not helped in, in that aspect, but things do get better there. There is a light at the end and you know, the future can be bright even if it doesn't feel like it.
Jules Absolutely. Thank you again, so, so much. I really do appreciate you coming on and for you sharing and for you just being open and honest and true and, that's what we need in the world, I think. And again, I really appreciate you and for our friendship and for the. Acceptance that we have with each other and for the love that we have for each other.
So thank you so much. You're welcome.
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