Written By Jules P

It’s Bizzare! On today’s episode, Bizzaro, an optical illusionist joins the podcast to share his journey into the world of optical illusion. His journey into magic started at a wee young age, and now he is a well known magician and performed in front of thousands. We chat about under appreciated art forms of magic, escape rooms and how they are magic themselves, importance of audience engagement, and the creative process of magic. Bizzaro touches upon his career path with magic and the opportunities he has had and is looking forward to opening his show, Late Night Magic, again later this year. Stay tuned to the end for a special magic trick for the audience, which also surprised me! 

🧙🏻Bizarro's Journey and Magic Beginnings
🎩The Art and Practice of Magic
🐰Challenges and Performances in Magic
🪄Magic Shows and Vegas Scene
🧿The Simplicity of Magic Tricks
⚡Defining a True Magician
✍🏻The Connection of Magic and Storytelling

🎩Connect with Bizzaro🎩 
https://www.smappdooda.com/ 

🎰What’s Happening Around Las Vegas?🎰

Looking for something fun to do in Vegas? Check out Monster Quest Escape Rooms in downtown Las Vegas where you are a bounty hunter and your mission is to help a town defeat evil monsters! Use code “JULES” at check out and you will receive $10 off your ticket.
www.monsterquestescaperoom.com

SPECIAL PATREON SHOUT OUTS
Thank you to Beni for being an amazing patreon! Check out the patreon for behind the scene exclusives!
https://www.patreon.com/c/julesunscripted 

  • Bizzaro: [00:00:00] magic is a skill. Yeah. Right. It's a skill. Like painting, it's a skill.

    Like dancing, it's a skill, like drawing the, you practice it, you try to get better at it, and you learn the subtleties, the ins and outs of it is an art form that is underappreciated because we hide the art. 

    Jules (2): hi everyone. Welcome to Jules Unscripted. I'm Jules, and today I have Bizaro here with me. Bizaro is a illusionist and he is also , an escape room artist. So I am so happy for you to come on the podcast to talk about Magic Escape Rooms.

    If you listen to the episode we did about like the Escape Room episode, biz has been mentioned. [00:01:00] So here he is, he's here with us live and he's going to explain a little bit more about. Escape rooms and also more about the magic that he does. So again, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

    I really appreciate you being here. 

    Bizzaro: Yeah. I mean, you're, you're local. It's not like, it's like it was a, I had to drive to LA or anything weird like that, right? Yeah. So it's, it's, uh, you know, nothing's far in this town, so it's easy to get it from one side to the other. Even, even at five o'clock, so, right.

    Yeah. 

    Jules (2): Yeah. I live, I work downtown and I live up by like the Summerlin ish area. Mm-hmm. So it does take a little bit, but it's not that bad. You know, you can get to the city pretty easily. 

    Bizzaro: No, I have, I have friends who've moved here from like LA and they're like, oh, it's so far away. I am like, first off, you know, that's a lie and don't be like that.

    Like, I'm always reminding myself, I'm like, no, just, just go. Don't be, don't be those people. Right. It's like, oh, other side of 15, nah, we're not doing that. 

    Jules (2): Right. I mean, 15 to 30 minutes is not bad at all. In hindsight. No, in hindsight, 

    Bizzaro: no. Yeah. Go to, go to. [00:02:00] Dallas, go to la, go to Chicago, go any other city, and you'll just, you'll be like, oh, this is nothing.

    Jules (2): The only thing I wish Vegas had more of was more public transportation. Oh, sure. That was easier for people to get around to. Mm-hmm. If they don't have a car or things like that, you know? 

    Bizzaro: Yeah. It's, I don't even know how they'd implement that at this point. It's, the city is so wildly weirdly made that, yeah.

    Yeah. You'd have to go underground and that's just not gonna happen. 

    Jules (2): Right. They're trying, but I don't think it's gonna work out. 

    Bizzaro: No, no. I mean, if anything, they do like hyperloop stuff around the city. Yeah. But I'm like, where, how, like there's so, everything's so wacky, spread out and Yeah. Who knows? No, this is definitely not a public transportation city.

    Not like, not like Chicago or New York or anything like that. 

    Jules (2): No. But you're from la? 

    Bizzaro: No. No. Where are you from? Uh, Dallas. Dallas, okay. Texas. Outside of Dallas. Then into Dallas and then here, but I've been here like 17 years now. Okay, 

    Jules (2): so you're pretty much a local. 

    Bizzaro: I would hope so at this point, you know? Yeah. magic is a skill. Yeah. Right. It's a skill. Like [00:03:00] painting, it's a skill.

    Like dancing, it's a skill, like drawing the, you practice it, you try to get better at it, and you learn the subtleties, the ins and outs of it is an art form that is underappreciated because we hide the art. 

    Jules (2): Well, I am excited for you to be on the podcast because. When Ian was telling me about it, he was like, you gotta get biz on. You gotta get biz on.

    He kept telling me that, and Mike kept telling me, you gotta get biz on. And so I'm like, hell yeah. Like, I'll like see what, what biz is about. And he gave me your website and everything. I looked into it, I was like, dang, this guy is a real deal magician. And dude, let me tell you, like I, so I grew up loving like magic.

    Mm-hmm. Um, I've been a big magic person growing up. I was so obsessed with it that I asked for a magic kit for Christmas, one year Land. Burton was my favorite musician. Oh sure. Yeah. So I don't know if you know the, like, magic kits that he used to make. I used to have one of those and like, I would practice like, you know, the sl of hand and all that type kind of stuff.

    But I was young. I [00:04:00] was like, probably, gosh. I mean, 

    Bizzaro: we all, most, most peop, most people who stick with it start young. 

    Jules (2): Yeah. But 

    Bizzaro: also a lot of them don't, like, it's magic is not unusual for, uh. For young kids of any age or gender or anything like that to get into it. Usually around 5, 6, 7, 8, somewhere around there.

    And then half of them, I would say fall off because they discover other things they like more like dance or karate or whatever. Right. Or drugs, whatever they, whatever it is. 

    Yeah. 

    Bizzaro: And then there's a handful of us, uh, who just stick it out longer than any other sane person would and make a career out of it.

    And 

    Ian: Yeah. And it 

    Bizzaro: becomes just this thing you do and some people. You know, you got a bunch of different levels of, you know, professional, , you've got guys who work the local scenes who do like children's parties. Mm-hmm. And then private parties and house parties, stuff like that. And then you have like the hobbyists, the people who do it for fun, but have regular jobs and the enthusiasts.

    And you have the people like me who do it [00:05:00] for a living, travel the world and go and teach it to other people and do stuff like that. And, but Vegas is the one place where a lot of us who take it very seriously come here because everybody here takes. Performing seriously. Like Vegas is a very professional city for entertainers.

    Mm-hmm. So almost everybody here who does it for a living is a professional. Right. But having said that, it's, it's not unusual for somebody to get into it young and then just be like, eh, this isn't for me. Or they discover other things or they come back around to it. There's a, there's a gal here in, uh, Vegas, whose name is Holly England, right?

    Mm-hmm. And she used to be in our show, late Night Magic at the Orleans, and she started life, she got into magic Young, then she discovered dance, like dance more, became a dancer, but then also would be an assistant in magic acts. And then she came back., When you, when you're a dancer from a very young age, uh, your body gets very, uh, destroyed early or like your knees and your ankles are just gone by like your mid thirties apparently.

    This is what I've been told. I don't know. Right. That's true. A hundred [00:06:00] percent true for everybody. So she came back into the magic world and started doing that again. So it's, there's no, there's a gentleman, uh, by the name he's passed away, but, uh, his name was Johnny Thompson and he was always into magic and stuff like that, but he didn't really start doing it professionally, uh, until he was almost, I think almost in his forties and stuff like that.

    Okay. So there is, you can always pick up something new, it you switch horses, midstream, jump, multiple horses, just whatever, have a team of 'em, who knows. But, uh, yeah, you could still pick it back up. There's not too late. 

    Jules (2): So. In that same kind of, , topic, when did you learn about magic and what really sparked that curiosity in you?

    Was it when you were young? Like how I was and you just continued around five or six. Really? That Yeah, around five or six. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's cool. That's cool. Yeah. 

    Bizzaro: And like there's, there was talking about, so most of us when they're young, there is some sort of magic kid or magic shop that is Yes. Is the, uh, and some, the newer generation, it's, uh, it tends to be more YouTube videos and stuff.

    Mm-hmm. That, that's more of a common thing now. But [00:07:00] back, back in bad day, uh, we didn't have that kinda stuff. So, you know, I would see magicians on TV and stuff like that, but my parents had gotten me like this. It was a Fisher-Price magic set. It was produced for like two years, I guess. And if you look up Fisher-Price Magic set ad, you'll see pictures of it and it had like these colored doors on the stuff.

    And it was also because it was Fisher-Price, it was made of like indestructible plastic. Right, okay. Yeah. Because it was made for kids. And, but what was interesting about this particular set is, uh, it was different than a lot of the others where it kind of seemed to encourage like standup stage per, almost like a stage performing kind of thing.

    Mm-hmm. Instead of the closeup stuff. , And so I think that mixed with the magic shows that were on TV at the time, David Copperfield, world's Grace, magic stuff like that, uh, kind of set the tone for me just going, oh, magic's a stage art, it's a standup thing. It's you get on stage, you do an act, you do the thing.

    And that's kind of, I think, what influenced my decision to be a stage performer. So. Yeah. Okay. 

    Jules (2): So mostly magic was your gateway into stage performance, and then you like [00:08:00] started doing the silent gigs and the comedy gigs and all that? 

    Bizzaro: Uh, yeah. I mean, when you first start out, especially when you're a kid, you get, you basically, you're like, oh, do children's parties.

    That's what they'll tell you because you can do, you can get paid 50 bucks, you do a children's party. And I'm like, all right, cool. And I tried that and realized I didn't like that. You know, I, I've done a little bit of everything. I've done just close up magic in restaurants and for, for private gigs. I've done street performing, I've done all this stuff.

    Uh, and it's one of those things where my brain was like, let's just do, I just wanna be, I wanna do stage performing where the people are intentionally coming to see me, right? Yeah. Like, I, I don't like bothering people, so I don't want to be like, Hey, hey, hey, look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me.

    Look at me. I don't, I'm not that guy. 

    Jules (2): Yeah. No, I understand that. You want people to come to you. You don't wanna chase. 

    Bizzaro: Right. Yeah. And, and also it's like my friend used to call, like, when you do magic, close up magic at a restaurant. Right. He, he used to call it dinner hostage theater, right? Yes. And you walk up to these people who, and all of a sudden they're like, they're having a conversation.

    They're like, 

    Ian: who the hell is this 

    Bizzaro: guy? What [00:09:00] do you, what do you want? 

    Ian: Right? I'm like, 

    Bizzaro: I don't wanna bug you people, but I, I have a job to do so, and there's nothing wrong with it. Some people are very good at it and make a great living, but that's just not my thing. 

    Jules (2): Right. No, I understand that. And you said you have a show at the Orleans?

    We did. You did. So 

    Bizzaro: for two and a half, three years, we had a show here in, in Vegas called Late Night Magic, right? Mm-hmm. It was a very, very adult magic show. I was, I used to tell people it's dick jokes and magic tricks. If you don't, if you don't like that, don't come. 'cause we don't wanna hear you complain afterwards.

    And so we started at a place called Alexis Park and it was five of us, right? So it was a team, it was this variety of magicians. And you know, one of the things we would say is like, listen, if you don't like one of us, just wait. There'll be something else you might like coming up. So. Uh, it was myself, a gentleman named John Shaw, who works over at the, uh, zag Baggin Hana Museum.

    Mm-hmm. Uh, a, a magician lefty who was also working in Murray, the Magician Show at Tropicana at the time. Uh, a, uh, a gwn named Anna [00:10:00] Rose, who, who did like mentalism and hypnosis. Oh, cool. And then we had a magician named Re who does like a dove act and stuff like that. And so we were there for like a year and a half.

    Then we moved to the Orleans for a year and a half, and we changed some of the people up. We, uh, ended up, uh, bringing in, uh, the shocker who's a, like professional wrestling magician character. Mm-hmm. And a couple of different, uh, other women magicians, uh, Holly England. And then she went off to do some other stuff.

    And then we brought in a girl named, uh, Tasha. Mm-hmm. Who's part of the Conjurers, who's a mentalism duo. Oh, 

    Ian: cool. At 

    Bizzaro: the same time. So, but then. The Orleans, in their infinite wisdom, decided to close down the theater. 

    No, 

    Bizzaro: to make a sports book. 

    Why? 

    Bizzaro: Because corporate people don't appreciate entertainment in this town, and there's no loyalty.

    Anyway, so, uh, so yeah, so they kicked all the shows out of there. That's sad. Like all four or five shows are in there. They're just like, get out. And we're all like, oh, okay. 

    Jules (2): Like Vegas is supposed to be entertainment, not always sports. Tell 

    Bizzaro: that to the bean counters, man. They don't understand. [00:11:00] Uh, so there is talk of, we're looking for another home and there's, there's been rumblings of things I've heard.

    Now I'm not part of the day-to-day business transactions of stuff, so I don't know what's going on, but I've heard possibly our show may reopen in October. So we'll see. Yeah. And if it does. Come see the show. Yes. I wanna come see it so bad. Yes. You'll see, you'll see many strange things. 

    Jules (2): Strange things are very fun for me.

    Bizzaro: Yeah. Yeah. I am a, my, I have two, I have two, uh, performance styles. I have a, an all silent act where I perform with music and do like what's called manipulation and stuff like that. Also, very kind of comedy VA vaudeville esque. And then I have a standup talking act that's a little more like prop comedy, uh, a little standup comedy style.

    So I have, depending on what's needed, like in September, I'm going out to, uh, Myrtle Beach. So I'll be doing my talking act and my silent act there both depending on, 'cause it's a magic convention, we have a big magic convention that happens here every year called Magic Live. So in [00:12:00] August at the Orleans, if you come out, come out around the evening, you can come to the bar and just hang out and watch Magicians doing magic for like hours.

    Jules (2): I, you have to tell me when that happens 'cause I will love to go. Oh yeah. Oh that sounds so fun. And they will, they will love 

    Bizzaro: you 'cause they will just show you magic all day, all night. Oh my gosh. And you can get drunk and just watch magicians try new stuff and we, it's very fun. 

    Jules (2): Oh, so speaking of magic tricks, like which one would you say is your favorite trick that you do in your shows?

    Bizzaro: So, when I was younger and a teenager, I was very influenced by performers like the amazing Jonathan, if you're familiar with him. 

    Jules (2): He sounds kind of familiar. 

    Bizzaro: Alright. So amazing. Jonathan was, he built himself as the Freddy Krueger of comedy. Right. Okay. So he was very, he has, he was what you would call a shock performer.

    Right. So he would do stuff that was like, he would take a knife and looks like it cuts into his arm, but it really doesn't. Stuff like that. Yeah. Very. Some very, sometimes very bloody So it was a pen. Early Penant would also fall in this category where they would just do shocking things, but will also be very [00:13:00] funny.

    Right. So I watched him growing up and he did this thing where he was putting razor blades in his mouth. Mm-hmm. And then string, and then he would bleed all over the place. Yeah. And then pull the razor blades tied to the thread out of his mouth. And I would remember being like very young and going. I wanna do that.

    That looks cool. And then my hippie parents let me, yeah. Because they're very open-minded about stuff. And so that's probably one of those ones that when people are saying, what's your favorite trick? And I'm like, oh, it's the one where I chew razor blades. Right. Yeah. And that's actually the, the, the effect that we opened late Night Magic with for all, all three years where I come out very cold open and I would perform this.

    The Razorblade Effect, 

    Jules (2): does that like hurt or is there a way that you like, kind of make it so it doesn't, you're not getting like, extremely hurt. It's magic. I know, but I wanna know. I just, 'cause whenever I see that, I'm like, does it like, not like, do you put something in your mouth before you have Everything is practiced crazy.

    Bizzaro: Everything. There's, there's, you know, I, it's what's funny is. I'm, there's a handful of people who are wanna make [00:14:00] everybody believe, like Matt, it's like I'm a magician. I'm this magical being, and I have these magical powers. I'm like, listen, magic is a skill. Yeah. Right. It's a skill. Like painting, it's a skill.

    Like dancing, it's a skill, like drawing the, you practice it, you try to get better at it, and you learn the subtleties, the ins and outs of it is an art form that is underappreciated because we hide the art. Yeah. Right. Very like you, if you don't see it, we're doing a good job. Right, right. And so by, that's, so that's why I always joke and say magic sits on the entertainment ladder where it's like, oh, we're right above, uh, right below some jugglers, but above some mimes.

    Right. So it's like, right. 

    Jules (2): You're like in the middle. Right. Because 

    Bizzaro: with juggling you can see the skill 'cause you're like, oh, I, I, I can't, I can't catch one ball, let alone in three. 

    Jules (2): Yeah. 

    Bizzaro: And so like, 

    Jules (2): put swords down my mouth. Oh yeah. Right. 

    Bizzaro: Like, hey. You get, you can see that skill, right? Yeah, 

    Jules (2): yeah, yeah. 

    Bizzaro: Um, but uh, with magic, you don't see it at all.

    And so it becomes one of those things where the skill you do see is like the movement, the [00:15:00] makeup, the, the choreography and all that stuff, and the comedy and, and the scripting. So it's, but the, the actual art of magic with, with the magic, the sneaky stuff, hopefully you never see it. 

    Jules (2): So what would happen if you mess up with your trick?

    Like, oh, it's 

    Bizzaro: absolutely happened, it's happened. How would you, so it depends how catastrophic it is. 

    Jules (2): Yeah. I was gonna say, how would you like fix that in front of a live audience? 

    Bizzaro: Uh, if you just experience. So yeah, it very much depends on how bad it is. So I've had things happen that the audience has no idea about, right?

    Ian: Mm-hmm. 

    Bizzaro: And. All That's one of those things we try to teach, like younger performers, when we, when we talk to 'em about this, about this stuff early on, we're like, listen, if you screw up, keep going. The audience doesn't know what you're doing and if you can recover, they just think it's part of the act. I have fallen off stage before and people thought it was part of the act now.

    Oh yeah. Now, 

    Bizzaro: because my performance style is very all over the place, it it makes sense. Right. It wouldn't work for Lance burn. Lance Burn fell off the stage. You'd probably notice. Uh, but in because of [00:16:00] the way I am, when wacky things happen, it's you just play it off and go, oh, I don't know what that was. I and I, but, but I have had things happen where I'm just ki you have to acknowledge it.

    You just kind of like, I, I used to have this routine when I was younger where I would multiply and produce like eyeballs. They would just get bigger and bigger and bigger. Right. Really. 

    Ian: That's great. And 

    Bizzaro: one of them was hidden in the table I had, and there was a piece of black cloth over it so you couldn't see it.

    And the black cloth just came un velcroed. Oh 

    no. 

    Bizzaro: And, and so this, I look down right before I, I go to steal this thing. And I look down and I, and I see it, and I know the audience has seen it the whole time. And I'm just like, well, they absolutely know what, where, where this is coming from. But I just kept going.

    Like, I pretended it didn't happen. And I just pulled the thing out and I just produce it. And I sit on the stage and I lean on it and I look at 'em and go, it has been a very long night. 

    Jules (2): You could kind of turn that into like a comedy sketch probably, huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like thinking off your toes. 

    Bizzaro: Yeah.

    And it's, it's a lot of improv is a very important skill in performing. Yes. Especially if you're a talking act. But, [00:17:00] uh, there's a performer, , who's blown up on the social media named Lucy Darling, who is also a magician, but nobody really knows that 'cause she doesn't show the magic, 

    Jules (2): I think. Is she the one with the red hat?

    Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yes. I've seen her, my friend sent me some stuff of her and I'm like, I love her. She's cool. Yeah. So, so she's 

    Bizzaro: a magician. Yes. And, but she doesn't put her magic stuff online. Uh, she puts her improv stuff online. Okay. All her crowd work and stuff. But that's the kind of stuff where having that skill of being able to interact with the audience and talk to them is more important almost than fooling them.

    Right. Right. Because some, everybody's brains work differently. So some people, you can't fool everybody. But if you can get most of them, it's nice. Right. It's 

    Jules (2): more connection. Yeah. Yeah. And like forming a story with them. Well, 

    Bizzaro: and I tell all sorts of performers, magic, acting, singing, whatever. It's like if they like you as a performer, they'll watch you do anything.

    It doesn't matter what it is. Right. So you just have to be likable. Now you don't have to be likable in a nice way. You can be likable as an asshole. Like amazing Jonathan. Like Jonathan was, he would be like throwing knives at people's [00:18:00] feet and sticking 'em in the ground and stuff. Oh, Jesus. Yeah. He was, he knew what he was doing mostly right.

    Uh, but he was still likable even though he was crazy. Uh, you know, his character was very crazy on stage. Uh, he was still very likable. And so you just have to be likable, however that happens. Right, right. And that's, that's what makes almost anybody I think, successful is just, they just wanna watch, they just wanna hang out with you.

    Right. Yeah. So, 

    Jules (2): no, that's cool. That makes sense. I like what you're saying about how, um, you know, if something messes up, you keep going, you just kind of play around. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And do all that. And sometimes, 

    Bizzaro: sometimes a screw up will lead to a better, a better outcome. Right? Yeah. I've had things mess up and go, oh, that was, how do I get that to happen every time?

    Right. I had a thing, we were doing a show in a bar here, and I was like trying to open a, I was trying to open this paper bag and in the, in the normal routine, I would, I would let go of the bag and be like, and look around and then realize it, it fell. I was like, oh, whatever. But one day we're in this bar and I throw the thing and I look and the bag is [00:19:00] gone.

    And I'm like, 

    Jules (2): And I 

    Bizzaro: look up, 'cause the ceiling was kinda low. It was like a popcorn ceiling. And it had wedged itself between the, the baggage, it somehow wedged up between the ceiling and the curtain. So the bag was just kind of stuck there. And I went, well, that's fun. And I was How did you get 

    that down?

    Well, 

    Bizzaro: I, I was close enough to be able to jump and grab it, but my brain was sitting there going, man, if I had, if I had, if I was here every night or every week, I'd tried to figure out how to make that happen every time. Right. Like, I'd put a magnet in the thing, put a sheet of metal up there. Yeah. So I could go smoke and have this bag just stick to the ceiling and be like, 

    Jules (2): where'd he go?

    That'd be so funny. 

    Bizzaro: And so that kind of stuff sits in my brain, you know? Yeah. But yeah. No, screw ups. Screw ups can lead, uh, you know, you, what is the phrase? You learn a lot from your failures, right? Right. So, uh, and I failed, I failed a lot on and off stage. And so having. Having those moments. We were doing, I used to work with a partner, a character in my show.

    We used to have a routine where I would get chased around while in a straight jacket and he'd be trying to hit me with a whole bat. Right. Oh yeah. And at one point he goes to hit me [00:20:00] and like a button on his pants popped, and these pants were very loose fitting and they just drop. Right. Thankfully he was wearing boxers.

    Yeah. 

    Bizzaro: Um, very 

    Jules (2): comedic. It was 

    Bizzaro: so funny. Audience thought it was great. And afterwards my mother comes up to us and was like, when did you guys put that in the show? I said, tonight. And my friend was like, we're not doing that every time. I'm like, yes, we are. It was so good. 

    Jules (2): Were you able to do that every time?

    I mean, yeah. It was, yeah. It 

    Bizzaro: was like when you, when you complain, it's actually sometimes, sometimes it's actually harder to do it on purpose than on accident. But I 

    Jules (2): was gonna ask you too, like, how did you come up with a trick that like. Ends up in your shows? Like, is there a process to start a new trick or is it something like that where it's like, it just kind of happens and you're like, oh yeah, let's add this one.

    Bizzaro: So inspiration comes from everywhere. Uh, sometimes I'll be watching another performer who's bad and just be like, and I'm like, oh, I, or I, I say something, I go, that's not great, but I know how to fix it. I know how to make it better. 

    Ian: Right? 

    Bizzaro: Or I, my brain gets ahead of them and I go, oh, they're gonna do this.

    Oh, they didn't do that. Oh, oh, I guess I'm gonna do that now. [00:21:00] 'cause that's a way better version. You know? So sometimes, you know, sometimes you get inspiration, uh, inspiration from that. Sometimes I'll be walking around like a, a craft store or, um, a, a hardware store and I'll see something and go, oh, you know what that looks like.

    Hey, that would, you know, it leads to a weird, like just my brain kinda wanders off. Uh, but, and then sometimes there's magic effects that preexist. Mm-hmm. Uh, that because they have, we have magic shops and we have people who teach, uh, lectures and DVDs, and I'm one of those people, you know, I have a bunch of things that I've created for sale and stuff like that.

    Um, but, and sometimes you see that and go, Hey, this would work for me. How do I make that, how do I write a routine around that? Or it's an abstract concept. I had this idea where I'm like, how do I hold something in a net that you can't hold in a net, like salt or sand, right? Mm-hmm. Like, how do you do that?

    Uh, and it just depends, like my having a weird sense of humor helps. Uh, for me, like I always tell people, I'm like, I'm making the magic that I wanna see. If I was sitting in the [00:22:00] audience. Right. Yeah. And I just happen to have a weird sense of humor. So like, I have a routine where I bring a bag of Doritos to life and it attacks me and bites my face off, you know?

    Yeah. So, and I, because I like nacho cheese Doritos, I think it's funny, right? And there's a, there's a longer story there for that, that's just, it was a conversation to me and a friend of mine about a dream she had. And I went, oh, that'd be really funny. And then I had this thought, I was like, what if we do this?

    And so, uh, like I have one of the routines that I do a lot now. It involves duct tape. 

    Okay. 

    Bizzaro: And so it was one of those things where I had a routine with duct tape in my talking act where I put tape over my face before tape face was a thing. I was doing this thing. 

    Right. And 

    Bizzaro: I'm not saying you stole anything.

    I'm just saying it was just the parallel thinking. Um, and then one day I'm like, I wanna do a routine with duct tape in my silent act. And then, so I'm writing on all these ideas with like going, okay, what would you do with duct tape? And I wrote all these ideas and I'm like, okay, now how do you put those into a flow?

    That makes sense. And one of the things that I like to do with my silent stuff is, , I, you know, make a vignette. Right. A [00:23:00] story. 'cause magic works very well as a presentation when it solves a problem. So you end up with this concept of, it's like this, uh, this is actually something the guys from South Park talked about in a video that they, they came and talked to like a script writing class or screenwriting class.

    Jules (2): Oh, and the actual creators of South Park. Yeah. They stopped in. 

    Bizzaro: And this video's online, not the full video. I'd love to see the full video, but one of the things they talked about is how. You can tell a movie's boring when it's written like this. This happens, then this happens and this happens and this happens.

    Yeah. They said, they said their formula and quite frankly a lot of, a lot of, not just theirs, but I think a lot of like the Simpsons and family guy, and a lot of the adult cartoons work this way as well. It's the concept of this happens, but then this happens, therefore this happens. Right? Mm-hmm. So it's like you're trying to do this, but now this happens.

    So you gotta fix this and that leads to this, that, but then this happens and now you gotta do this. Right? So that's kind of how the magic routines are written inadvertently. I didn't [00:24:00] realize that until I heard that and go, that's what I'm doing. Yeah. So it's like, oh, I'm trying to fix this, but then this happens and now I have to deal with that.

    Okay, I've, I've dealt with that, but now this has happened. I have to deal with this. 

    Jules (2): It's like chaos that's just keeps snowballing. Right, right, right. You have try and fix the snowball effect. 

    Bizzaro: And there are different types of presentations in magic, depending on, on your, what your personal preference is.

    And there's a gentleman out of Germany, his name is Topaz, who has this thing where he says, and I'm gonna mess this up, it's you're the killer, the victim or the witness. Okay. Right? Yeah. And so the killer is the one who is doing it on purpose. Mm-hmm. 

    Ian: The 

    Bizzaro: victim is the one it's happening to, and the witness is kind of just watching it happen.

    They're not in control of it, but it's also not happening to them. It's a, it's a weird kind of third person kind of thing. And so a lot of my magic would be the victim thing where stuff's happening to me and I don't know how. Yeah. But every so often there'll be a routine, like I wrote a new routine, uh, where it's kind of a mix of both, where I intentionally am starting out doing these things on purpose, and then it gets out of my [00:25:00] control and then I fix it again, and now it's back under my control and stuff like that.

    Okay. So there's, there's a lot of. Acting techniques that are involved in a, in a, a good magic act, right? Mm-hmm. And a good magic act, again, steals from all the other arts. It's, you know, there's movement, lighting, music, makeup, right? Whatever, storytelling, scripting, you just make 

    Jules (2): it your own. 

    Bizzaro: Yeah. You find a way to make it your, make it your to.

    I, I know that I have a whole creativity lecture, and one of the things I talk about is like, make the magic to who you are. Do not make yourself to the magic, because that's how you end up looking like everybody else. 

    Jules (2): Right. And that's what makes you unique and stand out, right? So that people do come to you to see your shows.

    Bizzaro: Right. Exactly. Yeah. 

    Jules (2): No, that's awesome. And 

    Bizzaro: I mean, it's not for everybody and not everybody can do it, unfortunately. You know, and some people are just boring. Some people are just not good performers. And I remember Mike Rose said something that really made me mad, but he was right. He was on some video and he said, just because you're passionate about something doesn't mean you're good at it.

    And I went, who? That's a harsh truth, isn't it? It is. It's very harsh. [00:26:00] Yeah. Yeah. 

    Jules (2): But sometimes you gotta push through to keep practicing. Right, right, right, 

    Bizzaro: right. And, and I would never tell somebody who loves something to stop doing it. Uh, I would just be like, Hey, try it like this. 

    Jules (2): Yeah. Maybe just tweak it a little bit.

    Yeah. Yeah. Maybe 

    Bizzaro: just, you know, 

    Jules (2): When it comes to, okay, so yeah, I'm like, we, it's fine. See, no, we were just going through all the questions that I didn't even have to like, really ask, like Yeah. It kind of flows. 

    Bizzaro: I tend to, I tend to yammer a lot. I have a lot of, I have a lot of feelings and thoughts on these things.

    Jules (2): Where's your podcast? Yeah. Uh, 

    Bizzaro: nobody wants to hear me talk that much. 

    Jules (2): , So you are pretty well, well known in the magic community as well, too. Sure. 

    Bizzaro: Why not? Um, sure. 

    Jules (2): . I was talking to my cousin's husband. Okay. And he was like a magician when I was asking people like, Hey, what questions would you have for a magician?

    And I mentioned you. And he goes, you landed bizarro. That is so cool. I've seen him on this like TV show, that show funny and all that stuff like that. So I was like, that's really cool. And then I've noticed that you were like on other things like, [00:27:00] um. You know, different TV channels and doing like reality stuff.

    And I've, like, I've, I've been 

    Bizzaro: on, I've been on, uh, the one that's the funniest is, uh, so my friend, the shocker I was talking about earlier, him and I have a show together called Shock and Bizarre, and we That's cute. Yeah. Yeah, because 

    Jules (2): I just realized shock and bizarre, like Right, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Names.

    Yeah. Yeah. 

    Bizzaro: And so we, we, we try to go after the Halloween market with that. So we've worked the Magic Castle in Hollywood for Halloween a number of times, and we're trying to get into some theme parks with the show. Like, so our act is kind of Halloween esque anyway, just by nature of, of how us being weirdos.

    And then we try to, we try to write things that's skew a little more, you know, unusual and things like that. So. Both of us have been on a, a variety of TV shows and one of them, if you can imagine it was Showtime at the Apollo, which is hilarious that they, they had us on there, but we've been on like Masters of Illusion.

    I was on America's Got Talent very early on, like third season. Uh, that's 

    pretty cool. 

    Bizzaro: Travel channel. Uh, there was a, there was a TV show called Back in like [00:28:00] 2003 called 30 Seconds of Fame. I was on, and a lot like local news stuff when I lived in Texas and I've been on local news stuff here, went for late Night Magic and things like that.

    So yeah, I mean, and there was, there was some TV shows overseas I really wanted to do. There's this great one in France, it doesn't exist anymore, called Cabaret Dumond that I really wanted to do and I just couldn't land it. And I was like, and then they stopped filming. I'm like, no. Oh, 

    that sucks, 

    Bizzaro: sucks. But yeah, no, I, I've been on a handful of things, not, you know, not as much as some, but more than others.

    So 

    Jules (2): what's the process of that, like getting on the TV show and doing your acts? Like, do you get nervous or like. Skin that you're on TV or is it just like a normal day? No, 

    Bizzaro: it's just part of my job. Yeah. You know, it's part of the job. Like there is, there's always a little bit of nerves with that kind of stuff here and there, but for the most part you just go out and you do your act and it that just comes from.

    Being confident and doing this a ton. Right? Yeah. So like there's, I know there's shows like, uh, Penn tells Fool Us that will have guys doing stuff for the first time on there, so I can, that's cool. I can assume that they're a little nervous, you know? Mm-hmm. Doing that. But if I'm going on tv, I'm gonna do something I'm comfortable with, you know?

    Right. [00:29:00] Um, it's very rare that I'm gonna do something for the first time on a TV show. Like, that's, that, that's ballsy. Right. I know some people who've done it. I'm like, well, but that's also, again, if you're, if you know what you're doing and, and you can, you've been on enough TV shows with other stuff, you can, you can fudge it, so.

    Right. Uh, but like, the process to get on it, it's all, it's different for everybody. Like sometimes you have, you send an audition tape and so like, what was it for American Talent? It was, I, I went and auditioned live for second season and nothing came of it. And then when the third season came up, I said, I'm just gonna come back with the same stuff, so I'm not even gonna bother to try.

    Yeah. But what they did was they reached out to a local agency in Dallas looking for acts. 

    Ian: Mm-hmm. 

    Bizzaro: And he, they, whoever had video, they just submitted a bunch of stuff, including my stuff, and they went that guy. So I just got to go straight through without auditions or nothing, which was, which was weird. 

    Jules (2): So he didn't get an audition in front of Simon Cow.

    Bizzaro: Well, you don't do that. You don't do that when in the cattle call auditions. Oh, right. Okay. That's. Uh, and at the time, Simon was only the behind the scenes guy. This [00:30:00] was, we're talking like, this was the Sharon Osbo, Osborn 

    Osbo, Sharon 

    Bizzaro: Osborne, Hasselhoff and whoever the third one was. Okay. Oh, the, the, the other angry British guy.

    Uh, and so, well, and my friends used to joke and say, Hunt's weird. The judges, uh, it's called talent, but two of them aren't American and the other one doesn't have talent. That's, how are they judges? Which I thought was funny. 

    Yeah, that's so pretty cool though. And 

    Bizzaro: that, but that was unfortunately back during the days when that show really disrespected variety arts.

    Like they didn't see any value in it. So they used to just make fun of the variety acts, even if they did well, like, 'cause they're, they can edit you to look however 

    Jules (2): right you want. It was more about like music and like singing kind of stuff back then. 

    Bizzaro: Yeah. It wasn't until Matt Franco who's over at, .

    The link who, when he finally, he was the first, I think, nons singing act to eventually get through. Now you had Terry Fader, but he was a singing ventriloquist, so I was like, Nope, still a singer. Still a singer. Just 'cause he had a puppet doesn't mean he's not a singer. Right. So it wasn't until Matt Franco that, that they, he somebody finally cracked that, [00:31:00] that that ceiling to get for the variety artists to kind of Right.

    Be a little more respected by that show, but they still aren't super respected, honestly. Mm-hmm. Uh, but as you can tell, I'm not a big fan of that show. Yeah. I can tell they have mistreated a handful of my friends. Oh. And then some of 'em, my friends have been treated well, but. Tv. TV people are a little shady.

    Jules (2): Right. I can understand that. 'cause it's like they're looking for something and even if you have all the talent and you think you can make it though, it'll be like, yeah, no. And kind of be rude about it. They all 

    Bizzaro: have an agenda too. Yeah. They have an, they, there's so many things that go on behind the scenes where they will, and some of them are de de deliberately trying to screw you.

    Yeah. That's, uh, which sucks. Uh, and some of 'em just don't know what the hell they're doing. Like, you'll get these weird requests like, Hey, why don't you try this? Why don't you try this? Like, no, I'm not doing that. 

    Yeah. 

    Bizzaro: And uh, some people are so desperate just for that, that attention and that, uh, exposure that they'll just do what they say.

    Yeah. And sometimes it leads to good things and sometimes it doesn't. Just depends. And 

    Jules (2): you're just following your own path. 

    Bizzaro: Yeah. 

    Jules (2): [00:32:00] Yeah. Because a lot of what this podcast is, is building your dream life, right. And building your path to your own success. So would you say like you. Just bulldozed your way through.

    It kind sounds like that in a way. 

    Bizzaro: It just depends. I mean, it depends on what your definition of success is. Everybody's, it is subjective, right? Yeah. So some people wanna be rich, some people wanna be famous. Some people just wanna work for a living and not have to worry. And I'm more, I fall more in that category, right?

    Like, some people move to Vegas to have their own show naming lights, and I'm like, that's not me, man. I don't care about that. I came here to work and just extend my career to a, to a different level. You know? It's like I needed to be, I had run out, exhausted all the places, all the options I could in Dallas, I was like, I'm, there's nothing else I can do here.

    Right? It is time to move on and came to Vegas. Yeah. And so I moved out here in 2008 when the economy was amazing. Uh, and so we just, uh, kind of used those terrible years to just get, get known in the industry and the community. And, you know, you, most of the entertainment business is making connections [00:33:00] and meeting people and getting to know, uh, people who will recommend you for things and stuff like that.

    And thankfully that happened for me out here. There's a. There's a gentleman named Jeff McBride, who's very well known, uh, who's in the magic community. Like he's, he's like a teacher performer. He was on television. He's done it all right. And so he helped me kind of get established early on. 'cause he used to have this show called Wonderground that happened.

    Mm-hmm. When I moved here, it was once a week on the weekends, and then it moved to once a month and it went on for like 10 years here in town. And he just put me on stage almost immediately so people in town could see what I did. Yeah, that's cool. And so that helped me get established quickly in a town where it, sometimes it takes years, uh, for people to see you.

    And I was like, oh, great. Thank you. You know? Yeah. So it's always nice to find people who are willing to lift others up because they've, they're already there, you know? Right. Having that. And it's also nice to have places. Vegas doesn't have them as much as places like Dallas did, but good. What we call good places to be bad, where you can go and screw up and [00:34:00] it won't affect your career.

    So it is kind of 

    Jules (2): like, um, as safe zone. A safe zone, so to say. Yes, yes. 

    Bizzaro: Yeah, there's a handful of places. There's like, there's only a couple places here in Vegas, , where we have that still, but they are instrumental in helping people get better. You know, even professionals need a place to try new stuff.

    Yeah. You know, people who like stuff you, you're just trying for the first time. 'cause that first performance of something will, will tell you everything you need to know that no rehearsal will ever prepare you for. And so it's you like thankfully Wonderground was one of those places where you could go and try something new and if it, like we were talking about earlier, if it failed and you could get through it, nobody would notice.

    Yeah. You know, it's like, okay, well it was, it could have been better. Um, but it was very instrumental in having, and I had a lot of those places in Dallas too, where I could just throw all this stuff at the wall and see what stuck. 'cause I also worked in the nightclub and life music scene. Yeah. So that was, doing stuff for drunks will, will make you good fast.

    Right. Because 

    they probably, 

    Bizzaro: because you have to hold their attention very, very fast. [00:35:00] So that's also why I do a lot of the silent stuff. 'cause talking in a bar ain't gonna happen. 

    Jules (2): No. So silent stuff is more like bars and parties and things like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So speaking of like doing like tricks and things like that too.

    Mm-hmm. What would you say is the most underrated trick that you think should be more known as, or do you think it's more kind of like what you said before, like the tricks are your own? 

    Bizzaro: So, I mean there's, it depends on what you do, right? So there are, there are cover bands, there's people who do other people's tricks.

    Mm-hmm. Right? They don't do their own. There are people who write their own songs and there are people who write their own songs, who do covers of other people's songs. Right. Okay. Yeah. So, you know, there's. There's only, there's a, there's a philosophy in magic. There's only so many types of effects. And depending who you ask, it's like anywhere from seven to 11 different effects, right?

    So it's like, I'm not, I can't, I don't have it all memorized, but it's like vanish appearance, transposition, torn and restored. Uh, I don't remember, I can't remember the other ones, but [00:36:00] stuff like that. Right? Yeah. So there's only so many. Once you break 'em down to their basic, their basics, it's like, oh, it's just these things.

    And so, you know, there's only so many options, but much like, there's only so many notes, you can find ways to arrange those in very particular ways. 

    Right. 

    Bizzaro: And, uh, so sometimes you'll just make a ginger appear outta nowhere. 

    Jules (2): I You wanna come in and say hello? Trying sneak. No, he's just gonna sit here, man. No.

    Good. You could hang out. Be the hanging out, be the, be the 

    Bizzaro: peanut gallery. 

    So, but anyway, to go back to your Yes. What your question is. So personally there are, there are, there are magical effects that I.

    Don't understand the, like, the method is not comparable to the reaction it gets, right? Mm-hmm. So there's an effect in magic. Uh, that is, uh, I don't, I don't know if about the, like, it's like roped card or a, a lasso card trick. That's what it is. I was trying to remember. So it involves a piece of rope, like I would do it for you if we had the setup here, but I Oh [00:37:00] man.

    Uh, so I was gonna ask 

    Jules (2): if you were gonna do any magic today. I, I, I can make 

    Bizzaro: that happen. I can make that happen. So the, the effect, uh, I is, you have a card selected, you drop it into a hat, a paper sack, some receptacle, take a piece of rope, drop a piece of rope in and go cha. And now you pull out and their rope is tied around that card that they selected.

    Right? Okay. In a knot. And we have, I have done different versions of this with headphones and Mardi Gras beads Yeah. And all this different stuff. And people's reaction to it is ridiculous. Like, and because to me the method is kind of baloney. Yeah. Like the method to me is so simple. That I just kind of go, why are you so impressed with this?

    Jules (2): It's simple. Because 

    Bizzaro: to me it's nothing, 

    Jules (2): it's a simple thing that people are like, wow. Yes. Uh, 

    Bizzaro: yes. And so it's, it's very interesting to me. And we've done it. We, I did this on a, we did this on TV show was a, so I do, I've done consulting for other performers behind the scenes. And so there was this magician who, uh, [00:38:00] who we were doing, we were traveling Europe, uh, doing magic for people in Europe.

    And so we did it with candy bars, right. And at a circus in the Czech Republic. It was nutty. But yeah, it's, it's one of those things where it's a very, uh, what do you call it? Uh, versatile routine. Yeah. 'cause you can do it with different stuff. But again, the fact that people are just like, what? I'm just like, all right, sure.

    Why not? 

    Jules (2): It's like the simple minded tricks. It just makes it so much fun. 'cause you're like, how did they do that? It's so easy and simple. And then it's like. It just makes it more fun, I think, for some people. 'cause they're, they don't have to think about 

    Bizzaro: it. Well, again, it's also about the performer, right?

    Yeah. Because one performer, you could have two performers do the same effect and one will be more entertaining and more interesting than the other person. I actually have a friend who, uh, I'm not gonna name say names, but I, I just had a magician friend of mine locally who basically did a, a head-to-head battle with another magician for a gig.

    It was the wackiest thing. They basically were both up for this gig. So the, the owners of this place said, both of you [00:39:00] come in and do a show for us separately. Not at the same time. Uh, same day though. So like, one of them did the show, then the other guy went after him. And one of them, his magic is stronger, but his stage presence is not, I see.

    But the other guy's stage presence is way more likable and interesting. And the other, and his magic is fine. It's whatever, right? It's not, it's not bad. It's just different than what the other guy was doing, 

    Ian: right? Mm-hmm. 

    Bizzaro: And so my friend who is more personable and more, you know, more. Out there and interesting was the one who ended up getting the gig.

    And that could, that's subjective. You know, everybody, again, everything is subjective in this life. And so the other person could have been like, wow, I'm so amazed by what you did that he could have gotten the gig. But again, it goes back to are you likable on stage? That's probably gonna get you further than then.

    'cause anybody can go into a magic shop with 20 bucks and buy a trick deck of cards and call themselves a magician. But that doesn't make you one. Right? Like I, I tell people all the time, like, there's a difference between a magician and somebody who [00:40:00] does magic tricks. A magician studies the art. It's just like an actor.

    Like I, I've written a bunch of stuff, I've been published in magazines, but I would never call myself a writer 'cause I've never studied the art of writing. I know how to write and I know how to make stuff make sense and, and be entertaining. But I would, I've never studied that art. I can, I know how to take photos of people.

    I'm not a photographer. I would never call myself that 'cause I've never studied it now, right? I have studied magic into the floor. So I will definitely call myself a magician. But the people who haven't studied it are just like, look at these tricks I bought. I do at a bar. I'm like, okay buddy, let's calm down with the title there.

    Right. So, but I'm also, yeah, it sounds a little elitist, but it's also, there needs to be that separation of just like, well, okay, that's not what, I wouldn't call you a magician, but Sure. Why not? 

    Jules (2): Yeah. 

    Bizzaro: Uh, 

    Jules (2): so what would you say are the elements of a magician? 'cause you kind of basically. Mentioned a little bit of it just now and it's like, it's the, yeah.

    It's the entertainment. It's like the tricks. But to you, what would you say is the true [00:41:00] elements of being a magician? 

    Bizzaro: , being a good magician versus being a magician to an audience is everything being a good magician to, in the magic world. Mm-hmm. Because those are two different things.

    There are magicians who are nobody's ever heard of outside the magic world, who are very well respected and revered in amazing. Who have just, who just don't perform for audiences. They're just magician performers. Yeah. And then you, that's a lot. We see a lot of these guys at those magic conventions, right?

    Mm-hmm. Like people I talked about earlier have real jobs. Like there's a couple people in our, in our who are well known in our business who were like innovators back in the old days. And one of the, his name was Larry Jennings, right. And he like had created all this card magic and he published all these books, super well known in magic.

    He was a plumber. 

    Right? Yeah. Nobody 

    Bizzaro: outside of magic really knew, knew who he was. Aside from Hoover, he booked, he did par parties, private party, stuff like that, and gigs. We all like anybody, but he didn't like, he never on television or anything like that. Mm-hmm. And so, so it depends on where you sit on that.

    But I think in magic, you know, in magic itself it's people who are have, you don't have to [00:42:00] know the whole history of magic, but knowing a little bit of history is good. Knowing, being well, being well versed in what's kind of out there. And especially in your own field, like the, like if you're an, if you're a closeup guy, I don't expect you to know a lot about stage.

    Ian: Yeah. 

    Bizzaro: Right. But if you know, it's, but some people know everything. They know a little bit about everything and they're super aware. They have, they have amazing libraries. And if you ask them, uh, who invented this? They go, oh, that's in this book on page 47, I have that book. And it is like, wow, that's a lot.

    Yeah. And so that there, but there's nothing wrong with that. as an entertainer. If you're doing it for an audience, it is really just being proficient and, uh, in all aspects of, of the art, I suppose, where it's like, oh, are you know, if you're a funny performer, are you funny? Do you understand the difference between comedy and a gag?

    You know, do you know how to be funny? Can you tell jokes without doing magic for a couple minutes? Right? Like, if you're gonna be call yourself a comedian, you better be funny without, without the stuff. But it's like, oh, are you? So it's like, I'm a, you know, there's a [00:43:00] manipulation magic where you do like, it's, it's usually silent acts, not always, but where you're like, you know, producing cards from the air and then multiplying beard balls and producing doves and stuff like that.

    It's called manipulation. Are you proficient at that? Are you, do people see what you're doing when you do it? No. Great. Okay. The technique is good. Perfect. Your technique is good and flawless, and, but do you engage with the audience? 'cause a lot of performers don't know how to, don't know how to check in with the audience.

    Mm-hmm. Right. They, that's one of the, and again, that's a lot of acting stuff where it's like, Hey, look at the audience, make sure that they. That they're with you on the ride. Like there's a ton of psychology that goes with magic that you learn as a performer. You read in books, but there's a lot of stuff you just have to learn by doing.

    Yeah. You know, there's these little weird tricks. There's ways to extend the applause at the end of something if you know those tricks. There's ways of getting an audience to kind of like, I will watch magic acts and I will see something because I'm, I just see these things as I'm trained to and nobody else in the audience will see it.

    And I'm just go, am I the [00:44:00] one who saw that? Yeah, I guess I am. But that has taught me that I could be a little more bolder with some of the stuff that I do. 'cause I'm just like, they're never gonna see this. Right. But these are things you only learn by doing. And there's, uh, I forget the author, but there's like a book about like 10,000 hours and it's like any, you know, anybody who's proficient will have their 10,000 hours.

    I 

    Jules (2): think I've seen that. 

    Bizzaro: Thank you. 

    Jules (2): What book was that? Malcolm Gladwell. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. 10,000. 

    Bizzaro: Yeah. And so I don't a hundred percent agree you need 10,000. 10,000 hours. We'll make sure you're proficient at it for sure. But you don't need that many hours to get to that point. Right. You can get better quicker, depending on a, what you're doing, where you're doing it, and stuff like that, and how 

    much practice you keep doing with that.

    Bizzaro: Yeah. And I understand the sentiment. I get the sentiment, but I think 10,000 hours is a little much. Yeah. It's like, holy crap, dude, what are you, where? Where's your 10,000 hours, Mr. Writer, man? You know, like 

    Jules (2): I would say your 10,000 hours started when you were five. Uh, yeah. I wouldn't imagine. Sure. 

    Bizzaro: Feels that way sometimes.

    Yeah. But yeah, the, and what's [00:45:00] interesting is there's a lot of people. Who started in magic that chose a different career path. But magic, like, I think helps them, 'cause it gives you an insight into people and stuff like that. But like Johnny Carson was a huge fan of magic and also did it Arsenio Hall had a magic act when he was younger.

    Right. Like a full on competition magic act, you know, um, Steve Martin. Mm-hmm. A lot of, and there's, 

    Jules (2): oh, I could see Steve Martin. Yeah. Um, the guy who 

    Bizzaro: played Star Lord is a is Chris Pratt. Yeah. Chris Pratt does a little bit of magic. You can find videos of him on talk shows doing it. Um, so Martin 

    Ian: started Disneyland.

    Bizzaro: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, that's so cute. Who else? Uh, one of the Property brothers started life as a magician. I love 

    Jules (2): the property brother. Right. So, Jonathan 

    Bizzaro: Silver Scott is a magician by trade and he'll call me up sometimes. He's one of the people I've done consulting for. He'll call me up and go, Hey, I'm going on a talk show.

    What would be good for this? And I'm like, yeah, okay, sure. We'll talk about it. 

    Jules (2): So, so he's, you. Yes. He, you guys are friends. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We've, yeah, we've 

    Bizzaro: hung out. And, uh, he has a, he, he had a really nice house out here, but I think he spends most of his time in LA now that he's Yeah. [00:46:00] With, uh, Zoe Dee. 

    Jules (2): Yeah.

    Bizzaro: , Who is also very nice. I got to meet her once and she was very nice. 

    Jules (2): Oh, I bet she's a gem. Yeah. Yeah. 

    Bizzaro: I, uh, I did a magic trick for her. 

    Jules (2): That was her reaction. 

    Bizzaro: Oh, good. Yeah, she enjoyed it. She enjoyed it, you know, uh, but apparently they love escape rooms, so I've been trying to convince them to come out and do the ones we have that we've made here.

    Yes, you should. Yeah. I know. I want to see them go through Swamp Monster. It'd be so fun. It'd be so funny. You should have, 

    Jules (2): , Our friend Ian, introduce them to the Oh, yeah. Escape rooms. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, 

    Bizzaro: yeah. But again, magic has, has, we talked about this earlier. A lot of people get into it and then they go to do other things, but it's still, it's still in there.

    It's still running around in your brain sometimes. So it, it helps, uh, with other things, and that's what I tell people all the time now when I, with the escape rooms, is. I make, I make magic shows that I don't have to be in the room for. Right. 

    Jules (2): That makes sense. Yeah. Because escape rooms are very mystical.

    Mm-hmm. And you're solving puzzles and you're trying to figure out a story, but then 

    Bizzaro: things happen that if that may or you may or may or may not have no explanation [00:47:00] for. Right. Yes. Like I, the joke I always say is like, if I put this here and that door over there opens and you don't know how electricity works, that's magic.

    Jules (2): Yeah. There's some in the escape room that is at Monster Quest. Mm-hmm. And the, the hardest one is in the Mummy one, where it's, , you're in the tomb and you have to like, try and move, The sliders. The sliders, yeah. Yeah. I always like can never figure that one out. That one always struggles. I struggle with that one so much.

    It is it, to be fair, it is 

    Bizzaro: the hardest puzzle in the room. That makes sense. Yes. Because that is very much it, it's, it's, it has been simplified a bit since I think you played it. I think there's been some new clues added to help Uhhuh because there's this fine line. With escape rooms. And it's just like for performing for people where it's like, okay, how, how artsy are we getting and how clear is it?

    Right. It's like, 'cause you could definitely watch some stuff. And I've definitely created some routines that I think the narrative you, you have what's called an inner monologue, right? When you're a performer, especially if you're a silent performer. [00:48:00] And so there's this inner monologue that is driving the actions that may not always be clear to the audience, but it's what motivates your actions, at least in your brain.

    And sometimes it's clear to the audience and sometimes it's very much not. Yeah. And so with the escape rooms, you have that same thing where you have to make sure that the, it's challenging enough for enthusiasts and people who like escape rooms and have played escape rooms. But it's not so hard that a newbie gets frustrated.

    Right? And so there's this balance, but what you don't want, so there's this thing we talk about where. What if somebody gets stuck on something and you tell, you give 'em a hint, they go, oh, like all of a sudden it makes sense to them. What you don't want is somebody to go, well, that's stupid. Like if you hear that, you're like, oh, that's not good.

    Yeah. And if you hear that over and over again, it's like, okay, well that needs to be fixed. Let's, let's change that. 

    Right. 

    Bizzaro: Uh, and it's same thing with magic. If it's not getting the reaction you want, you have to keep reformatting it. Like there's a routine in my talking [00:49:00] act that, uh, it involves like what looks like a giant piece of a Scrabble board.

    Uh, and it involves my name to try to help people remember how to spell it. 'cause I misspell it on purpose to the way from the way it's supposed to be. So. Mm-hmm. So my, my stage name is two Z's and one R when I was younger and I came up with the name of like 13. I was like, uh, which one is it? And I was like, eh, I like the two Zs.

    I like ZZ Top. They're little, little cross ZI like that logo. I'm gonna kind of, I'm gonna go with the two Z's and the one R, but the real way to do it is one Z in two R's. Right. Okay. So I, it gets spell checked and changed all the time. So I was like, I'm gonna. Educate people on how to spell my damn name.

    And so I came up with this routine, but then it didn't get the, it got this reaction of, huh. Right. It didn't get like what I wanted. I was like, come on guys, this is better than this. Right. And the one day I just got mad and I just, I just showed them how it worked. Huge laugh. Okay. Giant reaction. And I went, I guess that's how I'm doing it from now on.

    I get to, 'cause it's my own trick. I can expose my own thing. [00:50:00] Right. It like magicians who on the internet, who expose other people's stuff, they don't have permission to, or the right to suck. And I will, I will fight any of you who argue with me on that. Yeah. Um, and so, but if it's your own thing, go for it.

    Right. So, and that's one of those things where it's, and sometimes it's, you just can't be too married to something like in escape rooms the same way. It's like, I love some puzzles and I'm like, but. But I want them to understand it the, the way it's meant to be understood. But it's like, it's not about me, it's about them having a good time.

    Right. I'm, it's like you can't be selfish with magic or escape room, anything in the entertainment business. You, you have to be, you have to find this balance of, am I happy with it? Am I, are they happy with it? 

    Jules (2): So with escape rooms and how you would wanna do an escape room, what would that look like for you if you don't have to worry about people not being able to understand or get it?

    Like what, what would that kind of, 

    Bizzaro: I mean, I've escape room look like Ive, I've definitely, I've definitely made plenty of those already. It feels like. , Well that's the thing. It's like, it's a, I, [00:51:00] you know, it's, there's always gonna be a narrative. 'cause it's, as a magician, you think to yourself, okay, what do I want the audience to experience?

    Right? It's not about the method. 'cause the best method is the best method. So my, our thinking is usually. We don't worry about method. Usually sometimes we start with method. If it's a cool method, we go, how do we figure out something around this? But usually it's like, okay, what do we want the player to experience?

    What do we want the audience to experience? So with an escape room, it's always like, okay, what's the story? Right? So because it's so, it's like story drives puzzles. Puzzles drives story. And so by coming with a narrative, then you can just kind of make wackiness happen as long as it fits in that world, right?

    Yeah. So when we were developing this, the, you haven't played the swamp room yet? Not yet. Yet. I want to though. Okay. So the use 

    Jules (2): code jewels. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. 

    Bizzaro: Um, so at the, so the, the swamp room was written. It had a different narrative when the previous owner had the space.

    Mm-hmm. And when Mike came [00:52:00] in, we rewrote it because we could be a little more whimsical. Right, right. With, it wasn't meant to be scary anymore. So it was, it, there's scares in it, but it's not meant to be like scary. So we were like, let's get, let's get a little wacky with this. Let's have fun with this. So we changed the ending of the room.

    'cause originally we were supposed to, uh, defeat the monster and electrocute him. Right. And so we changed that. I'm not gonna say how, 'cause you haven't played it. I want you to see it. So now there is a different ending from that. And we changed. We were like, but why, why? Like, why does this exist? And so we sat and did a rewrite and went, oh, uh, this guy ran afoul of a swamp witch.

    And she cursed him and. And now he's, he's been collecting all these voodoo trinkets to try to reverse the spell, but he's also a moonshiner. So he is trying to combine these two things. And so one of the things we try not to do is just shove story down your throat, because that can get heavy handed, it can bog down the experience.

    So you leave these clues and [00:53:00] puzzles through the, through the puzzles. As you solve the puzzles, you get pieces of story. And so you, as you progress through something, you go, oh, I get it. Right. It's one of those things, you kinda put the cl but if you don't, it doesn't affect your experience. Right. Yeah. So like when with the mummy room, you mentioned earlier, you know, the whole point of that is, Hey, there's this guy, we can't find him.

    And then you end up finding him later. And uh, and it's one of those things like, well, we found him, you know? 

    Yeah. 

    Bizzaro: The end. So that, that room does not have as deep a narrative, but it doesn't need it either, you know? Right. And so sometimes. You know, there's a difference between a theme and a story. You can have a room with a theme, but you can't have a room.

    It has to, you can have a theme and no story, but you cannot have a story with no theme. Right. Right. It 

    Jules (2): all kind of has to marry itself 

    Bizzaro: together. Yeah. So I've definitely played rooms that, that had a theme, but there was no narrative of any kind. There was no reason why you were doing any of the stuff. And just like the magic thing, as I said, where magic works best when there it solves a [00:54:00] problem.

    So do escape rooms where it's like, Hey, we're solving a narrative. You know? And I tell people all the time, it's like they're, they're live action video games. They're live action movies. You're an actor in your own story and you're experiencing, uh, a story that from finish, hopefully start to finish. Right.

    , It's about storytelling. And then magic is the same way. Sometimes you're telling a story that is. Very obvious. And sometimes you're not. Like I, I have friends. There's a, a, uh, her name is Luna Sha. Her father was a well-known magician. She had this act with umbrellas, making 'em all these parasols appear.

    And the original version of the act was all the parasols were, uh. What do you call it? Like had like planets painted on them. 

    Oh, cool. And 

    Bizzaro: so the, the weird, the, the narrative, which I picked up and I loved, but I, she never explicitly states it 'cause it's a silent act, was, it was, she was basically this goddess creating the universe, right?

    Oh. Creating the stuff. And I loved the concept of that. It's, and if you pick up on it, you're like, oh, that's really cool. It's like, oh, she's creating planets in the universe. Right. That's neat. [00:55:00] Uh, but you don't have to spoonfeed that to the audience. The people who get it get it. The ones who don't, they're just, that's true.

    They're just like, ooh, pretty colors. 

    Jules (2): They just need to kind of open up their mind a little bit. Sure, yeah. And story tell. But, you 

    Bizzaro: know, uh, as, uh, there's some, we've, we've made like nine escape rooms for a company in Reno, and they're, they were, one time, one guy was like, listen, we go by the 80 20 rule. If 80% of people are happy, we're, we're doing a good job.

    Jules (2): Yeah. Can't make everyone happy all the time. Right? No, 

    Bizzaro: no. That would, what was, uh, George Carlin used to have a linery, he said, uh. You ever heard the phrase he was, somebody says, I'm more than happy. That sounds like something you get locked up for. He was more than happy. We had to lock him up. Oof. 

    Jules: That would terrify me.

    Right? I can't, I can't be locked up. 

    Bizzaro: Yeah. Yeah. You ever been in a RAI jacket? 

    Jules No, I wouldn't want to either. Yeah. 

    Bizzaro: No, that's fair. That's fair. Yeah. Yeah. , I own a couple, 

    Jules: uh, let me see here.

    Ian: Got all of them for magic. 

    Bizzaro: Yeah, right. Yeah. I used to own a black leather one because I thought it was funny as hell.

    Jules Are you gonna do the magic card? Can you do that? I 

    Bizzaro: just thought I would tease you and just make the, just be like, look, it's a deck of cards. Let's, can you, I can, can you please? Oh my gosh, 

    Jules: I'm so excited. I magic. I'm like shaking. Oh, so you're the kind of people that we love. So, so we are, we are doing magic right now.

    Bizzaro: Yes. You can hear that, right? This was not planned. I'm so 

    Jules: so excited. So totally unscripted 

    Bizzaro: for you. Maybe I knew this was gonna happen. Um, thank you. So, yeah. So, uh, yeah, the, here's a weird thing. There are magicians who if you ask them to do something, they'll be like, no, I don't do stuff. Whatever. 

    Jules: Yeah. That's why I was like, I don't know if I'm gonna ask or anything.

    I don't wanna be like that. First 

    Bizzaro: off, screw those people. Like, don't tell anybody you're a magician if you're not gonna perform for them. Right. Right. It's like, if you don't [00:57:00] love magic, don't tell anybody you do it. If, if it's only for you and you're only doing, you only do it on stage when it benefits you.

    Bite me, right? Yeah. Like, if you really love magic, you will do it for anybody who asks. And, and it, it's always weird to me, the guys who've also, sometimes there's magicians and Shocker and I talk about this all the time, where he, all these, it's kinda like this, like, they make fun of magic. It's as like this weird, ironic kind of hipster sense, right?

    Where they're just kinda like me, look how stupid this is. Right? Ha. And it's like, shut up. 

    Yeah. 

    Bizzaro: Just, oh, you hate, you're a self hating magician. Congratulations. Get out. Anyway. So, uh, with that said, I will have you pick a card. I'll tell you, I'll tell you what it is 

    that, I mean. Well, that'll 

    Bizzaro: be the, see, that's the easy version.

    That's the easy version right there. I'm kidding. All right here, wait. I know. Here little with the camera. Can see it? Pick a card. Free choice. Go on. Just take a card. Any card. Just take fine. Be that way. All right. No, seriously. Take one out. Go ahead. I'm [00:58:00] gonna do all the jokes. Take a look at it. There you go.

    Okay. Show it to the camera. Don't tell the audience at home because, uh, we will. Don't look there. 

    Bizzaro: Listen, if you've picked a card I've never seen, that will be impressive. Right? It's the, it's the, uh, 12 of cups. What, what, how did I get in there? Okay. 

    I have to look at it. 

    Bizzaro: It's a you yogurt. That's a Pokemon card out.

    We snuck it in from out there. From, yeah. Anyway, okay, so, uh, I'm gonna run my thumb down the side of the cards to tell me when to stop. 

    Jules: Stop. 

    Bizzaro: That was a little fast. Sorry. That was on me. Let's try it again. Here we go. 

    Jules: Stop my all. Listen, 

    Bizzaro: I can't. One more time. Here we go. That was 

    Jules: fine. Stop. Let me start, whatcha 

    Bizzaro: doing to me?

    Just put it here. It'll be easier on everybody. All right. There you go. One more look at the card for me. Good. Okay. Perfect. Now watch the card goes into the center. I don't, I'm not holding any, uh, funny breaks or anything like that, whatever that means. Uh, so take the cards. I'm gonna shuffle 'em up like this.

    And you know what? I'll [00:59:00] even let you shuffle it. This is, this is your show. You get to be part of the, of the action. You can shuffle however you want. Look at that. Like, perfect. Just, just like, just like all the Asians in the casinos. Perfect.

    Actually do this. 

    Bizzaro: It's okay. It's this, this makes it more entertaining for me. There you go. Perfect. I, yep. I have no clue what's going on. All right. Ooh, shuffle. Now I'm screwed. Now she shuffled it out. I don't recall telling you to cut the cards. 

    Jules: Sorry. Jesus. 

    Bizzaro: No, I'm kidding. Anyway, okay. So. Um, normally it is my job to find the card.

    Yes, but this is your show, so you're gonna do it. I 

    Jules: haven't done this in fucking years. I, right. Okay, great. I don't know these cards. Okay. 

    Bizzaro: Wave your hand over the cards. Wooow. 

    No, 

    Bizzaro: I didn't say it was your card. I just wanted to go and sit the camera. Calm down. Alright. Hold up your hand for me. Put your other hand on top of the five so it doesn't fall out of camera view.

    [01:00:00] Right there. Perfect. Okay, watch. Here we go. Watch. How about that one? 

    No, 

    Bizzaro: we got 50 more to go. All right. No, I'm kidding. It's fine. Here we go. Let's try this. But take the three right here. We're gonna take it under your hand. It's gonna turn into the card that's in your hand. What's in your hand. Show it to the audience, please.

    Fuck you. Show it to them. Make sure they say it's yo. And that, I assume from that reaction, that was your card. Yep. Perfect. All right, good. 

    Jules: I was like, uh, I never know how this is done. 

    Bizzaro: All right, we'll do one more. We'll do one more just for fun. ZZ Watch. Goes into the top of the thing, goes here on the middle, just like that.

    One more time. I'm not going to hold any types of controls or anything like that. And now what I'm gonna do is I'm going to mix up the cards. 

    Okay. 

    Bizzaro: You are adopted. What? It works for my friends. All right. So we will do it this way. Watch. I'll take the cards. We're gonna mix 'em up different directions.

    Forward to back. Back to this dog. Kind of fell out. It's fine. It's okay. We'll just put 'em all these different things. So the cards are all messed up, kind of like me. And so you can see they're all facing different directions. Forward to back, back to forward. Just make sure the camera can see that right there.

    Yep. They're all facing different directions. You can see that too, right? Yes. All right. Great. Here, fix those. No, you're not. We don't have that kind of time. It's No, no, it's fine. We don't have that kind of time. Here, snap your fingers over if you can. Perfect. By the way, this has nothing to do with the trick. I apparently am the only person I know who snaps their fingers with, with these two fingers and not these two fingers. I can do this. I can't do this. I'm a mutant and that is my X amenability anyway, so you've snapped your fingers over the cards, just like that. These cards are now no longer mixed up. They're all facing the exact same direction except for your card. The only one right there. Ah, the camera cannot see that, but that's okay. We'll just take your word for it. There we go. Back 'em up. Uh, all the cards just like that. Nina spades. Da da. Oh, I just 

    Jules: don't understand because I, 

    Bizzaro: and if you did, you would be disappointed.

    Jules: I kind. 

    Bizzaro: Those aren't marked. If you're looking for marks, I don't do that kind stuff. Okay. 

    Jules: Because I was like, these, these look like normal as cards. They are, they're 

    Bizzaro: normal as cards. I could do it with a deck of cards you had if you had one here. These aren't, these aren't special.

    Jules: That’s a real magician.

    Yeah. Yeah. But in my old magic book that I was talking about earlier, like the old magic kit, they had the trick cards that had like the certain kind of Oh yeah. Um, like how he could tell, which is which. So I'm like looking at these, I'm like, these are real fucking crap. No, no, no. Like, 

    Bizzaro: ugh. Yeah. So yeah, that's the called a mark deck.

    Those do exist. I don't use those because they're expensive.

    I can see why. Yeah, right. Yeah. But if you ever wanna see if somebody's using Mark Deck, here's a fun little thing. And this is, this is a gambling thing, right? So what you do, it's called go into the movies, right? You take the cards and you kind of do this, and it'll be like a flip book. You'll see stuff moving around the deck, right?

    You'll see like. Weird symbols or things changing. And so if you wanna know if magician's using a mark deck, you pick it up and go, you mother. But I don't do that. 

    Jules: No, I love that you use real like cards like that. 'cause it just makes it so much more magical. 

    Bizzaro: Well also it enables me to do it with anything at any time.

    Right? Yeah. Like that's another thing, like that's true. You learning, like there's a, there's a ma, there's a branch of magic called impromptu magic, which means I can do magic with anything, almost anything at almost any time. Right? So if I'm sitting at a dinner table, there's at least 10 things I can do off a dinner table with stuff that is already on the table.

    Yeah. 

    Bizzaro: So there's that branch of impromptu magic and learning that stuff. You don't have to, but boy does it help. 

    Yeah. 

    Bizzaro: When somebody says, here's a dinner roll, do something magic with it, and you're like, oh, okay, here we go. Can I do magic with anything? No. Can I? Right. But. Uh, I can, I can at least make a joke about it.

    Jules: And then joke is magic. And it's itself 

    Bizzaro: too. It can be. Yeah. So it just depends. But 

    Jules: thank you so much. Of course. Yeah. Though like that was so much fun. Like, I think you could see a little kid in me. Oh yeah. When like, you had that I was like, oh my God. Because like, I just, I love [01:04:00] magic. Even though it's like the one of like, uh, a well-known card trick for magic.

    It's still kind of like shocking. You're like, how does that work? Yeah. Like, I don't understand. Well, and, and like I 

    Bizzaro: said, it's like a lot of magicians, a lot of people, we, I tell people a lot where, where they're like, tell me how it's done. I go, listen, we don't keep the secrets from you for us. We keep them from you.

    For you. Yeah. 'cause if we tell you your reaction is. Really, I fell for that. Like, you get very up, people get upset when you're just like, really? That's what it is? 

    Jules: You're protecting the mag. Yes. You're protecting the magic and the, uh, excitement of the magic for, it's for the people.

    Bizzaro: it's not for selfish reasons. It is for your benefit completely. Yeah. So, , even though it could be both, but, uh, but for the mo for me, it's one of those things where I'm like, trust me, you don't wanna know. 

    Jules (2): Now, one more question. Sure. Before we end our conversation, do you wish that you kind of have that, excitement with magic words? Like you are watching it for the first time and you're like, don't have to. Like kind of had that logic behind, so I have, and tricks and things like that. Like, do you kind of wish you had that? Like, oh my gosh, this is so cool feeling. Yeah, so 

    Bizzaro: I have talked about this as a joke where I'm like, I wish I could get my hypnosis friends to be like, you forget, you forgot everything, you know about magic for like 24 hours.

    And then I'll be like, show me everything. , I do tend to remember the, my, the feelings I had early on when I was a kid for certain, certain things. Like there was, I would go to magic shops and there were magic effects when I would see, when I was eight and I would, I was 10 and they would blow my tiny mind and then I'd buy them and I'd figure out how they're done.

    But I remember those feelings. Right now, there's a couple of them that I learned how they were done before. So I don't know what the audience is experiencing, but there's some, I absolutely know what the audience is experiencing because I got to experience that as a, as a kid. And so you kind of keep that in mind where you sit there and go, oh.

    They enjoyed that. Okay, great. I kind of know what that feels [01:06:00] like. So yes, it would be nice, but at the same time, I still do get that feeling from time to time because there are magicians who are pushing boundaries constantly. Right. The uh, and it's not just in America. It's all over the world. There's, uh, South Korea is doing some amazing things.

    Uh, a lot of these magician manipulators are doing. Stuff that just is mind blowing. You look at it and go, you guys are practicing way too hard. Um, and the, there's a thing every year called fm. It's basically our Olympics. It's, uh, it's mostly in European countries, uh, is where it usually is. And the people who've been winning it the last, 'cause it's every three years.

    , The people who have been winning it most, a lot have been the Spanish and the Spanish are doing some very good stuff as well. So I'll watch those acts when the videos come up online and I, and there's stuff that will just take you by surprise. You know, I'll sit there and go, oh, because I'm not, I don't know what I'm looking for.

    Right. And then, but of course I can, I can, my brain can then deconstruct it and go, I think this is what he did. [01:07:00] But with video, I can also watch it frame by frame because I loved it how stuff works. Right, right. I, as. I am that person who wants to know what's out there, because as a consultant and as a prop builder and as a creator, I want to know how something works because I, I like to collect that knowledge.

    So it's one of those things where I still, I get the best of both worlds sometimes, where I just kind of go, oh, okay. No, I have no idea how that worked. And then I either think about it or figure it out, or somebody tells me and I go, but then I get to appreciate it on a completely other level of cleverness where I go, you clever, SOB, how?

    I can't believe I was fooled by that. But also that's awesome. Like I get excited by these new weird methods and these new ideas. And like, uh, my friend Carissa, uh, she, one day she asked me, there's a moment in one of my routines that. She asked me, she said, how, how, where does all that go? And I go, oh, it goes here.

    And she just looked at me and go, you 

    son, 

    Bizzaro: you piece of shit. How, and she was mad at [01:08:00] herself for being fooled by that. Right, right. Because she's like, I can't really, alright. I'm, I'm like, listen, I'll take the compliment if you're gonna swear. I mean, I, that's a good, that's a good compliment. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so it still does happen.

    But yeah, it's one of those things where I don't know if I'd like to go back to a complete dummy state. Right. I mean, it'd be interesting for sure if I, if that would be one of those things where we're just gonna wipe all your magic memories and nothing else. I'm like, I don't know. Yeah. Come out, come out and be like, I wanna be an accountant now.

    but I still do get that from time to time. So it's, 

    Ian: that's good. 

    Bizzaro: But I, and I can, but I can also experience that with other stuff. There was, there is this cool decoration thing. This company figured out how to make these, like chain mail, plastic chain mail, kind of like, they, they're lightweight and they're, they're, it's for like, you know, when you go to a.

    Office building or casino, there's these weird like just installations hanging, right. Which just art installations essentially. But they figured out how to make it wave. So it looks like it's moving, but it's not. Oh, cool. 

    And I've watched 

    Bizzaro: this and I'm just [01:09:00] like, I do not know how this works. Like, it makes no sense.

    And to my brain obsessed with it because it's an optical, because optical illusion stuff will, will mess you up. Like there's a, there's this thing with a three, A 3D printed thing where it looks like a little disc and it looks like it's, you're moving this like piece of 3D printed stuff in like through these portals.

    Right. With, I'd have to show it to you to make it make sense. But I would know how it works and I still can't see it. It makes me mad, but I'm sitting there going, they've even shown me how it works and my brain cannot wrap its head around it. Yeah. 

    And 

    Bizzaro: I love it. And I hate it at the same time. 'cause I'm just like, that's magic too.

    'cause you're just like, what is happening? I know what's happening, but what is happening? 

    Jules (2): Right. There's magic all around. So 

    Bizzaro: that optical illusion stuff also gets me just kinda like. Okay, sure. Yeah. Um, there's a guy online who does a ton of optical illusion, straight to camera magic stuff. Uh, PRI Prichard, I believe his name is Dr.

    Somebody Prichard, 

    Ian: I'm not sure. 

    Bizzaro: Look him up. He [01:10:00] does stuff that, some of it I can figure out, but a lot of times I can't. I'm just like, and it's all in camera note's, no trickery. It's all practical. And I just look at it and go, you suck. I know you're doing something super sneaky and I just can't see it.

    Yeah, because he's using not only optical optics and optical illusion and and depth and stuff, but he's using the camera, taking very, very specific advantage of the medium of the camera to fool you. And I'm just like. Dr. Matt, Matt Pritchard. Yeah, that's it. Okay. Science magic. Yeah. Look up his stuff. You'll, you're gonna get frustrated.

    Yeah. And he reveals some of it. He does reveal some and you go, oh man, 

    Jules (2): I'll definitely put that in the resources for people. They wanna like go and look him up and stuff like that. But yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much though for coming on. Yeah, of course. And for sharing your magic journey and everything like this.

    This was really fun. Yeah. I feel like I need to have you come on again and talk more about like escape rooms and stuff like that. Sure. Yeah. Part two. I'll be happy to. Yeah, 

    Bizzaro: no, listen, I live in town. Like I said, it's not [01:11:00] that, it's not that far of a drive. 

    Jules (2): Right. Well thank you again so much. I really appreciate it.

    Bizzaro: Yeah, no, and good luck with uh, all this craziness. Thank you. Yeah. 

Jules P https://www.julesunscripted.com
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